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Striking a Pose (Women and Fantasy Covers)A while back, we had a discussion on the blog about the cover art for my princess novels. For the most part, I really like these covers, but they’re not perfect. Now I could talk about the way women are posed in cover art … or I could show you. I opted for the latter, in part because it helped me to understand it better. I expected posing like Danielle to feel a little weird and unnatural. I did not expect immediate, physical pain from trying (rather unsuccessfully) to do the hip thing she’s got going on. I recruited my wife to take the pictures, which she kindly did with a minimum of laughter.
I’m tempted to use the Night Myst pic as my new author photo. In all seriousness, I spent the rest of last night with pain running through most of my back. Even the pose in The Shape of Desire, which first struck me as rather low-key, is difficult to imitate and feels really forced. Trying to launch my chest and buttocks in two different directions a la Vicious Grace? Just ow. To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with being sexual. I can totally see Snow from the princess books flaunting her stuff, for example. But posing like these characters drives home exactly what’s being emphasized and what’s not. My sense is that most of these covers are supposed to convey strong, sexy heroines, but these are not poses that suggest strength. You can’t fight from these stances. I could barely even walk. Guys, you should try it sometime. Get someone who won’t laugh at you too much to try to help you match these poses. The physical challenge is far more enlightening than anything I could say. (Wardrobe changes are optional.) A few covers which I feel do a pretty good job of conveying strong, capable female characters: The Gaslight Dogs, An Artificial Night, The Darkest Edge of Dawn. Other suggestions and general discussion are welcome, as always. Related: A contortionist and martial artist tries to imitate a comic book “fighting pose” … and can’t do it. 314 comments to Striking a Pose (Women and Fantasy Covers) |
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Being me, I naturally couldn’t stop there. I headed over to Amazon and grabbed a sampling of book covers, primarily urban fantasy, and spent the evening doing a photoshoot. Click on if you want to see the results (or if you just really want to see a shot of topless Jim).
Dayum.
You should do more of these. For… Um… activism. Yeah.
Heh … Sorry, no more until my back recovers
We *definitely* need more. These are AWESOME!
Yes! Activism. Certainly not because some of us find genderbending strangely appealing. Nope.
When I saw your post on Google+ I wasn’t expecting what I saw on your blog. You cracked me up! You’re a very brave man for both trying those poses and publishing your photos. Big thumbs up.
Hey, writers are all about “Show don’t tell,” right?
Especially when you’re showing that you can be a little bit foxxy!
Nice show don’t tell! Really gets the point across. Plus, it looks like fun (if a little painful). I’d be interested in seeing the same done for male cover art, to see how big the difference is.
That’s the second request I’ve gotten for male cover poses. I may give that a shot…
(And it was kind of fun, if you ignore the painful parts!)
OMFG Jimmy….. I think I just wet myself a little.
New disclaimer proposal: Please don diapers before reading this blog.
In defense of the Ringo cover, that woman does appear to be floating. If that’s any kind of defense…
Yep – I think there may be some in-story explanation for *some* of what’s going on there. But even if we ignore the legs, that pose with the swords is (to my eye) rather bizarre, and then there’s the wardrobe…
Hey, did you see the blog post in which a martial artist and contortionist talked about how impossible poses routinely used for female superheroes are? ‘s here: http://justsayins.tumblr.com/post/14957660366/this-needs-to-stop-and-let-me-tell-you-why
Sadly, not as visual as your post.
Yep! It’s linked at the very bottom of my post
Ah, silly me. Anyway, can’t be linked enough, that.
I’d add to the list – martial artists, contortionists – and dancers could pull off many of these moves.
But it’s really goes to show how much the ‘female figure cover art’ more closely follows the pictures of professional models posing than anything from reality. Most model picture poses are forced and uncomfortable.
There’s a cognitive scientist who has speculated that the female poses men find most attractive are those that exaggerate the positions women find easier to do than men–poses that rely on hips, in particular. The entire point is that a man would look ridiculous trying to do it. That’s what makes it feminine.
I think you just illustrated that far better than the original cognitive scientist.
Who says women can do these poses more easily? I am a former figure skater; my hips don’t do that. I work with models as a photographer, most of them can hold those poses about as long as Mr Hines did, and they are in just as much pain.
Excellent point, Tara. As a former anthropologist, I should have thought of this point.
To elaborate a little further on my comment earlier that I can get into and stay in these poses easily, I am 55 years old and no longer skinny. However, I do yoga and belly dance, so my muscles aren’t locked into constricted positions as most people’s (especially men’s) are.
And to flip things around, I would look silly too if Jim photographed me in some of the poses men are in on book covers. They emphasize broad shoulders, tallness, strength, and narrow hips.
I’m laughing a lot, and I think that makes your point all the more poignant.
I think artistic license is allowable (see Stepsister Scheme cover), because obviously artists have their own styles and so on, but there are covers which really take it too far (Urban Fantasy is problem numero uno). I’m fine with posing, but it does tend to look a bit daft at times…
It’s like the artists who insist on drawing boobplate armour – Stop it! It’s ridiculous, and it’s actually dangerous for the wearer. No self-respecting warrior would run into battle with boobplate armour as it directs blows towards the heart, and if you trip you could crack your sternum.
I need to keep better track of the things I read online, because I came across a post a while back from an actual armorer, talking about armor for women. She had made one breasplate that actually conformed to the breasts, for a custom order, and she brought up exactly those points — even though everything is covered, the shape guides the weapon to the center of the chest, and if she falls facefirst on the ground, that groove is going to do nasty things to the sternum…
*coughs politely*
http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/
*coughs politely*
I have it bookmarked for moments just like this one
You rock, thank you!
I’m thinking you may have hit upon the next physical fitness craze to come after Zumba!
I think what I like best about these photos, Jim, is that you have nerf rifles and swords just laying around the house to pose with. That makes you awesome.
And I agree with above comment about showing, not telling. You’re made a very important point here and got us to laugh while doing so. Bravo!
And lightsabers!
I’ve got real swords as well, but I also have little kids, so those tend to stay put away
LOL!!! Oh my (a la George Takei). Thanks Jim, I needed that.
No one can say you aren’t brave!
With regards to the breastplate armor… almost every self-respecting female fighter I know (in the SCA) straps themselves down before putting on their mostly armor. I do know of one who had the custom work done, but that was a LONG time ago. The most molding I’ve seen done is a slight bump because on normal women, the chest is not the same size as the waist. Most of the ones I know wear leather anyway, and it kinda shapes itself after a while.
One of my favorites is Ingres’ Odalisque – the only reason she can do what she’s doing is that she has a few extra vertebrae to do it with.
::gasping for breath through laughter:: You are my new urban fantasy contortionist hero, Jim. Bravo!
Ha ha ha ha ha. Hee hee. ::wipes away tears:: This made my morning.
Speaking as MLN Hanover, I am only sorry you didn’t include the improbable leather pants and chains.
If only! Alas, my leather pants were at the cleaners…
Thank you, Jim, for your brave and hilarious send-up of these ridiculous covers. It’s funny how a little gender reversal highlights the absurdity of hyper-sexualized mages of women. Also, nerf weapons FTW!
LOVE this post! It really puts things into perspective. Not that I didn’t have much the same opinion before seeing this post, but nevertheless, what you did it awesome and really makes a point. I’ve never quite understood why it is that the strong female leads of so many fantasy and urban fantasy novels have to have it demonstrated in cover art by showing off so much skin and striking poses that look like they’re borderline painful sometimes. Sex appeal =/= equal strength.
Loved it! I’ve always wondered and never had the heart to try it for myself (and I’m a girl) because I knew I wouldn’t be able to do those kind of poses- I’m not exactly stick thin and only slightly nimble!
I recently bought Ann Aguirre’s Grimspace because the cover showed a strong woman in a reasonable pose. The character’s boots do have a bit of a heel, but at least she isn’t wearing stilettos. The book looked interesting but it was mainly the artist’s work that I wanted to support with my $. I ended up really liking the book and buying the series but it was the great cover that attracted my attention.
The artist is Scott Fischer – the same one who did the covers for 3/4 of my princess books
I loved Grimspace. I picked it up for almost exactly the same reason.
At least the Parasol Protectorate series has real women posing in real costumes, they are wearing corsets but they have a legitimate (read historical) reason.
“My name is Jim, and I’m about to fall off this couch.” It is A Very Good Thing I’d finished off my cup first, or it would have been a waste of good coffee, as my computer monitor and keyboard have not acquired “the taste”.
Disclaimer: The owner of this website is not responsible for any keyboard damage incurred during the reading of this blog.
That was great!
To be fair, it would help your hip-thrust action if you were built like a woman (it helps to have hips before you thrust them! at least it helps a little, I’m pretty sure my back would also kill me for those poses and I could give you hips and still have plenty left).
My little sister and my girlfriend both actually do sit like the second cover pretty frequently. Though I think the angling of the body is a bit different, so as not to overbalance, and you have to have a somewhat higher and firmer couch than it looks like you are using. They can also both sit flat on the floor with both legs on one side, the way they used to teach girls to sit in skirts.
But yeah, most of those poses just don’t convey anything LIKE “strong and sexy,” but more like “I’m going to die in a minute here because I’m showing off instead of paying attention to my surroundings or WEARING PROPER ATTIRE TO BE FIGHTING IN.” That one is my other pet peeve. How are they going to move in those pants? If they’re going around with a gun why are they not wearing a SHIRT or even a properly supportive garment for their “tracts of land”? If they’re prepared for a fight why did they not tie back their hair?
Anatomy and skeletal engineering are a factor, yes. But there’s definitely more going on here than just those physical differences.
I knew I forgot something. I should have been doing these poses in heels!
The heels are definitely missing
Reminds me of the movie In Time where even the guys left the cinema muttering that those shoes were insane and that it would have made more sense if the heroine had ditched the heels and put on some boots.
Haha! You definitely should have worn heels!
Maybe that would have forced your hips into the weird tiltiness required (at least, that’s one reason I refuse to wear them)…
@Vanades–I frequently feel that way when watching movies, or reading some books. I LOVE it when a heroine actually gets to wear something practical.
Me too ;-D One of the scenes I loved in RED was when Helen Mirren’s character stepped out of her pumps and put combat boots on before she started to blast the bad guys away.
Scenes like that shoudl be in every Action/SF/Fantasy/Horror-movie.
While I take your point, and in visual media I can’t help but laugh at woefully unrealistic portrayals. At the same time, cover art has a job to do… and IMO the covers you have criticised are much more eye-catching than those you have noted for their realism.
I don’t think this is about selling books via sexiness; otherwise there would be covers with GUYS baring their skin and being provocative, and as far as I’m aware that’s not really a thing.
I think covers like these come from ordinary garden-variety misogyny. Someone (the artist? The publisher?) just kinda forgot that women have any non-decorative functions. It happens.
Practical examples! This is great.
Like everybody else, I am in awe of your courage at even attempting these poses, let alone publishing the photos on the intertubes!
Reminded me of a video I saw some time ago – everyday people striking the poses of fashion models – so (of course) I had to go find it and share it with you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GPEcdcmnAA0
On my monitor with this resolution, I didn’t actually know the second cover featured a woman. And in defense of Queen of Wands, I didn’t take that pose so much implying strength as being in the middle of some cultural sword dance.
I enjoy and approve of this recent trend of guys recreating art that objectifies women. It helps put things in some pretty stark contrast. Fantasy cover art has a long history of sexual objectification, and it’s good that more folks are aware, and that folks like you give it the ribbing it deserves. I’m tempted to get a photo of myself in such a pose and use it as the official cover art for an e-book. At worst, it’d make a pretty funny limited edition dust jacket.
There’s definitely some in-story stuff going on with the Queen of Wands cover. She seems to be flying/floating, so I can accept the position of the lower body there.
The sword dance … hm. As I understand it, a lot of such dances evolved from combat techniques. I don’t know.
I’m still calling this one out for gratuitous butt crack, though.
As it happens, I’ve read Princess of Wands, the book which Queen of Wands is apparently the sequel to, and I don’t remember much in the way of flying or floating being the sort of things the protagonist gets up to. Also, said protagonist is a soccer mom from the American south, so sword dances aren’t really in her culture
However, the title of the book is a reference to the Wands suite of the tarot deck, so it might well be a reference to the illustration on the Queen of Wands card from some specific deck the author or the artist prefers.
If you’ve read Princess of Wands, you should remember that the “soccer mom” in question had a great deal of martial arts training. I’m thinking that it has something to do with that more so than either dancing or floating. As for the Author (Ringo) or the Artist (Stephen Hickman), I don’t know if either of them have a preference for any tarot deck. “Queen of Wands” will be book 2 in the “Special Circumstances” series.
This just made my day. Love this. Very clever, very amusing, and totally kickass.
You know, to be fair, I imagine a lot of these poses would twinge and ache for me, too. But they wouldn’t have 20 (or even 15) years ago.
These book covers are all young, FIT women.
And I suspect the “young and fit” is a much more relevant factor than the “women”.
Oh. My. Dog. These are awesome.
More please.
Now I have to clean off my screen…
Loved these! Reminds me of a project my little sister did in college in which my parents posed, genders reversed, as covers for psychology textbooks.
You’ve seen these, of course:
http://www.petapixel.com/2011/10/04/men-photographed-in-stereotypically-female-poses/
I hadn’t seen those, thank you!
And your sister’s project sounds great!
Actually, the hipshot pose on your princess cover is a favorite
way of standing for me, though my feet tend to be just a bit wider apart.
This was AWESOME
You are my new hero!
This is brilliant. Thank you for doing it. And I feel for you, some of these poses look extremely uncorfortable.
I’m sure publishers have reasons and arguments for depicting women like this but honestly, I’d ratehr have a cover that shows the heroine as she is, i.e. dressed sensibly and standing/moving in a realistic way.
You had me laughing through lunch. Love it. Thank you.
Love them! You are one gorgeous man!
This is brilliant and hilarious, thank you! Shira Lipkin directed me here; she correctly said that you win at the internet again. Indeed.
However, dare I say it, you need a bigger gun in that one…. ::ducks and runs::
I said almost the exact same thing to my wife when we were done taking the pics.
She gave me a rather odd look…
I was sent this link as a suggestion for a late night panel at Alt.Fiction. ;p
I think it could make a really cool panel, if done well…
So funny! Thanks for doing this FOR GREAT SCIENCE or sociology or something.
Ha ha ha! Awesome, Jim. Thanks for going the extra mile for us!
I will say (as I’ve said on your lj before) that having female hips does make some of those poses easier — Danielle’s particularly. (I know some exercises that crunch the muscles being contracted in the Yasmine Galenorn cover, as well, I think.) And I think if you had a wire-fu thing going on and were suspended in nothing for John Ringo’s, the leg positioning might be a little easier.
Which is a long to say that these are still kind of silly ways to stand, even if you’ve got some post-birthing hips action or are Scarlett Johansen (whose poses for the Avengers stuff look remarkably similar to many UF covers)…
Hope you remembered to dial down your pump before that work out! Seriously, more awesome than the photos was seeing a fellow type 1 person rocking their pump!
Go Team Diabetes!
This wasn’t much of a workout, but I definitely adjust my dosage before karate and such. It’s interesting … every class before I work out with someone, I have to tell them where my pump plugs in so they don’t hit that spot. (Everything else is fair game.)
I know the pain, everytime before my aikido training I have to remind everybody about my own do-not-damage spots… Sometimes it may be pretty annoying.
I haven’t read your work but I’m going to go right out and snap up a couple of your books. The ridiculous posing of women on book covers is something that’s had me gritting my teeth for a long time. I’d rather have a female character dressed sensibly and realistically. And thirteen year old me did (way back when), too.
Good effort!
Seriously tempted to do a ‘response’ to this and try this myself, hahaha.
I am so glad I put my coffee down. Brilliant. Utterly Brilliant.
This is why you’re my favorite. (Or at least one of them.) I’d hug you, but I’m still giggling too hard.
Jim, well done on the cover poses. Have you ever thought about recreating some of the ‘male’ cover photos. Especially the SciFi Romance covers? … just a thought. Thanks for the laugh.
Reminds me a bit of Rion Sabean’s “Men-Ups”… http://www.rionsabean.com … but you can see the series here (I think its his Flickr account). http://www.flickr.com/photos/clickandclash/sets/72157626584908000/
Oops… didn’t see this posted above already.
Enjoy it again, because everyone should. 
Oh, my. I still have happy tears running down my face. Love it.
This is truly hilarious…
And a good point. In fact, I have quipped about this very thing.
But here’s a different perspective for you. I’m a professional illustrator (f/sf) and, for me, when I’m making a cover (and I think I speak for a lot of other illustrators out there) the point is to put something down that will grab a browsing persons attention immediately and hold it long enough to get them to pick up your book. It’s gotta stand out of 300 different books on the shelf and it’s gotta pop out enough so that it grabs your attention at Amazon-thumbnail-size image.
So the image becomes whatever I can make LOOK engaging… and that can easily wind you up in contorted poses and back pain…
Hey, whatever gets them to pick up the book!
But these covers are a dime a dozen, and so they don’t really stand out a lot. Contorted woman in what is supposed to be a sexy fighting pose? 90 percent of all urban fantasy books…
Many of these have a primarily female readership, too. I can assure you that I don’t pick up new series to try because there’s girls on the cover.
I am female, & have been reading fantasy, sci-fi & horror since I was 12 (& that was decades before that Twilight rubbish).
I can say with all honesty that I tend to skip past covers like those mentioned above as they’re usually the sex-trumps-plotline types. Don’t get me wrong, a little romance or smut can be fun, but I’ve got to give a damn about the plot & the people first.
The only books that I’ve ever picked up to read the blurb purely because of the cover art were one involving a dragon crouched in front of a car with rather startled occupants (it just looked really interesting), & one of the earlier Terry Pratchett novels (Light Fantastic, I believe) because I couldn’t believe the art.
Jim, this is great! Found it through Twitter and just HAD to check it out. I love your poses. Thanks, you’re brave to try it out and acutally publish these pics.
BRAVO!!! this post has made my day!
Um. I love you.
Brilliant.
Just thought I’d weigh in: based on the cover, I would not have bought Stepsister Scheme for the exact reasons you emphasize here. But then I saw the post on Metafilter, and someone mentioned that you treat female characters as people, so… I just bought a copy. Looking forward to reading it!
Nico: If all the artists/illustrators (a huge percentage of which are men) are trying to have a different look, then why do so many of the covers featuring women all look so alike–look at the ones chosen here–in only one is the woman anywhere fully dressed appropriately for anything, and even there, the contortions make my back hurt to look at them.
Jim: FANTASTIC! I am now reccing and linking all over!
Ithiliana: I think you have misunderstood me. I didn’t get into illustrators trying to achieve a “different” look (that’s an entirely different subject, I’d be happy to discuss). I said they are trying to achieve an engaging appearance to the cover.
The way you do that is, firstly, by having an interesting silhouette to the overall image. Squint your eyes at any of the covers above and you’ll see one or two main large shapes popping out. That’s what I mean by a silhouette.
To achieve a grabbing first impression that’s got to be there, and it’s got to be an interesting shape, as well. And a regular pose a lot of times just won’t cut it for achieving that interesting shape needed to inspire interest. Hence the distorted poses.
And your intimation that male sf/f illustrators are chauvinists is totally unfair… you completely forgot to mention the authors.
This was wonderful. Hubba hubba.
Also, I’ve just been ranting quietly to myself about cover art this week, so it is very timely.
I just read two wonderful books with lovely covers–except for the fact that the character clearly states that she is flat-chested, and the picture on the cover…not.
The ones that are currently making me crazy, though,are the covers for the last three Patricia Briggs’ “Mercedes Thompson” books. I love these books with a white-hot passion, and the cover picture even looks pretty much how I picture the protagonist. Except for the tattoos depicted covering her entire back, both arms, and a bunch of other places. Tattoos which don’t even stay consistent from book cover to book cover. And which contradict the character’s own statement that she has ONE tattoo, a coyote paw under her navel.
I’m not sure why urban fantasy heroines are so often depicted with massive amounts of body art, but frankly, I’m tired of it. Tattoos don’t make you tough unless you are a biker or a sailor. And then you were probably tough already
The way I heard it explained (I think by Patty’s husband, Mike) was that the tattoos are supposed to give hints as to the story’s plot. They’re not meant to be literal interpretations of what Mercy looks like.
Well, almost all of my characters are inked, usually for magical reasons. And so am I–very heavily, in fact, there’s no way not to see at least some of my tattoos unless I covered neck to foot with gloves. So for my books, the covers portray the characters accurately. Tattoos are not just for those who want to look ‘tough’ but have a long spiritual/magical history.
You’re my hero! Best laugh I’ve had all day!
ROFL…well, um…if you looked like the women in the pictures, it might actually be a little easier. (No, neither do I…so I don’t even attempt those poses!). I do love the UF covers though, and my cover artist is absolutely awesome.
And re: body art, almost ALL of my characters are inked. And so am I–quite heavily.
Yasmine
Painfully, painfully funny, Jim. You slay me. At least I can say my cover model’s poses usually look possible and stable. Probable is something else entirely.
You have the same cover artist as Seanan, don’t you? From what I’ve seen that person’s style is much more … plausible?
This is genius. You are so going viral.
So it would seem. (The viral thing, I mean.) It’s turning into an interesting day…
This is awesome. I am loving it
Bravo! And amen. Thanks for the laugh. Thank you even more for the message.
I think the difference may be partly female vs. male anatomy. All of the poses were easy for me to get into and felt natural, except that I did not try Queen of Wands. As I tried the poses out, I found that when my weight was unevenly distributed over my feet, the hip over the foot with the must weight naturally slid out to the side.
I think I’m in love with you. Will you have my babies?
Thank you, but I already have a hard enough time keeping up with the two kids I’ve got
Brilliant. Hilarious.
Thank you! I think the photos show more than words could ever describe.
mb
I already thought you were awesome for your brilliant books, but you just gained some cool points with me as well. This was both hysterical and enlightening. Thanks for sharing!
You are a feminist superhero. I applaud you. (uploading Advil and Tiger Balm)
Cannot. Stop. Laughing. LOL!
I’ve never read any of your books, but after having this great blog post shared with me, I’m off to see what you are all about. Great stuff!
What she said..
What they said!
)
It might help to have some dance experience… the Vicious Grace one I think I might be able to imitate, but not in a pain free way.
Love you and those pics! Pure awesomness!
Though you need a bra for the “Vicious Grace” photo, don’t you think so?
A bra (or reasonable substitute) was debated…
Being a girl is hard. Being a girl on the cover a fantasy novel is SUPER hard. lol.
These are all really great! Really funny!
Sent here by Jess Haines… An absolutely brilliant post!
I look forward to showing this to my 16 year old son and the conversation that will follow.
I’d seen the contortionist’s article you linked to at the bottom of your piece, and after it generated an argument with a few of my male friends about how the poses weren’t really that unrealistic, I tried out a few similar stances in the mirror. Even with female hips the bendy-torso shots are excruciating after a short time, and there’s no way you can physically achieve the poses where the character’s top and bottom endowments are given equal coverage, as the bottom is usually impossibly bootylicious due to the exaggerated spine curvatures the figures are given by artists.
I was going to enlist my husband to take a few pictures of me trying some of these for a similar blog article, but you’ve now saved me the pain and effort, as well as doing so in a much more humorous fashion, thanks to being of the opposing gender. My sincerest gratitude to you! (Especially for the saving of the pain part – my right hip hated me for the rest of the evening and part of the next day after contorting myself into just a facsimile of that one pose.)
These pictures are hilarious. This was my first time seeing your website, and I originally came to compliment your Stepsister Scheme series. I especially liked the ending, and Morveren from Mermaid’s Madness…
Now? I’m sort of at a loss! *chuckles* Definitely didn’t expect this! You made my day, sir!
Thank you! Yep, you picked the one day something I posted went moderately viral and my inbox exploded
Jim, this is why you’re one of my favorites. So funny.
There’s a tumblr dedicated to pointing out extreme examples of badly posed women in comic art, called escher girls: http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/ The work featured there is much more extreme, and includes drawn images of women who probably don’t have internal organs, and might have severe spinal injuries. Kinda fun to browse through for the anatomy fail.
One word, Fantabulous! Brains and…..I won’t use that word!
I used to model, and I quickly learned that what looks good for a camera and in a still frame isn’t usually what feels good. A lot of strange twisting, flexing, and doing things to get interesting angles. It’s harder work than it seems. So some of it might be that a lot of these poses were designed to show off a body more than be realistic.
But yeah, not good for combat at all. Thank you for the pictures, and the laughs. Night Myst should totally be your new author photo!
I love this. Thank you for pointing out the reality vs. fantasy. And I’d like to thank you for Goblin Quest. I’m not sure my goblin would be as adorable if I hadn’t fallen for yours first.
Goblins are cool!
(Yes, I’ve been watching and channeling Matt Smith lately…)
Jo Walton’s The King’s Peace has a rather nice and entirely believable cover.
did anyone else notice the further down the page you get the less clothes Jim has on….just sayin’
Have you ever done a photoshoot before? Those lights get hot!
These are good.
Oh this is awesome! The “Vicious Grace” is particularly funny. That certainly is a practical pose to stand in. Especially when you’re shooting people!
You are AWESOME!
This is just awesome! It was all over twitter today so I just had to come see what all the fuss was about. So. Funny. I must share this with my readers this weekend. Thanks for the laughs and for reminding us that either a) models are uber flexible or b)photoshop is amazing.
I think you already know what your most popular post of 2012 is.
Oh, and wow. Just wow.
I checked the hit counts for this post. I’m pretty sure that in the less than 12 hours it’s been up, this post has already been read more times than any one of my books.
I’m not entirely sure how to feel about this
Great post, Jim. I’ve been attempting comic book poses in private for years–never had the guts (although I do have the gut, singular, and the infusion set) to go public.
Bravo for trying what so few men have and for straying a little bit further down the path of understanding. If you wish to continue down this perilous path, but with much less physical risk, I suggest you also peruse this link. It is an analysis of the difference between the poses of female and male superheroes. Don’t be drinking anything when you first glance at the link.
http://rosalarian.tumblr.com/post/2325861377/dressed-to-kill I supposed it would help if I posted the link…
I figured this was going to show up soon.
By that, I mean the missing link, so to speak. Good stuff!
Details…
(And yep, I’ve seen that one
)
HILARIOUS. We had a few cover discussions on my blog a while back–so– do you take requests?? This pose is all over the place–you need to try it!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Attack-Underworld-Detective-Agency-ebook/dp/B005CRY7YQ/ref=pd_sim_kinc_1?tag=bearm-20
Almost the same one:
http://www.bearmountainbooks.com/images/misc/2011/08/pose.jpg
And the same one with a gun:
http://www.bearmountainbooks.com/favorite-reads/art-reviews/cover-art-discussions/have-you-ever-shot-a-gun/
To be most realistic, you probably need to try it in heels…
:>)
Hm … drawing on karate, that looks like a very exaggerated low cat stance. I could probably pull that one off!
But I don’t think there’s a single pair of high heels in this house.
I demand to see it!! I actually did the pose, and it wasn’t too bad with no weapon in either hand and using my hands to get balanced. Then I tried it with a gun (not a real one). There’s one cover out there with a lady who has a crossbow doing it. The thing is, it’s way harder to get into position not using your hands and not pointing the weapon at anything you want to keep! Then you have to aim the weapon without falling over…
Come’on. Even without heels, this could be your author photo!!! (Although…although…there’s some good ones above…)
I just tried this pose (without heels though) and managed to get into position without using my hands, but I might have the advantage of several years of ballet-training even though I’m totally out of shape.
Agreed–it’s not too bad if you have some balance. With practice you could probably even get there and up in a hurry. The thing is…why would you? Why not fall flat on your stomach, brace your arms and fire? Why not just crouch down? What’s with the leg out to one side? And if it were ONE cover with the pose, I’d never have noticed. I think I ended up blogging about 4 or 5 such poses–one with a crossbow, one (At Grave’s End) where I don’t know WHAT she’s doing, one with two guns (one in each hand) and one with one gun…it’s WEIRD. The pose isn’t even all that sexy.
I think we need Jim to try it (with photos) for a final decision. :>)
The missing link. XD Sorry, but that bit struck me as funny, too. It’s always nice to see female representations as more than anatomical caricatures.
Dear Jim, I want to thank you so much for taking the time and physical effort to pose for these photos! I had just come home from a 10 hour day as a nurse at a prison, had a man with no insurance back into me at the gas station, and gotten off the phone as mediator with a fight between my parents when I saw your photos. Thank you very much for the therapeutic hysteria induced by them!!!! I needed to laugh until I cried (especially the one where you show your insulin pump site….nurse-nerd humor deluxe). Thank you again.
You’re welcome, and I sincerely hope your week improves!
Similar: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/04/j-scott-campbells-mary-jane-entertainingly-mocked/
Okay Jim, I’m dying over here. Whatever you do, no bodice ripping! *chortles*
Oh, I STRONGLY disagree!!! We need at least one bodice ripping scene!!!!
these are not poses that suggest strength. You can’t fight from these stances. I could barely even walk.
Given how difficult these poses are, it must indeed take real strength to hold them. Not only that, but to look casual in them as well. I’d say you’re wrong on the strength angle.
The strength to gold the poses is one thing. The strength to both hold those psoes, and hold your own in a fight, both at the same time? I think not. ;3
Thank you for standing up (in many different poses) for the idea that strength — especially for women — does not lie solely in sexuality and that the fantasy genre is not a euphemism for pornography!
Great stuff! At minimum you ought to attempt the other two poses on the cover of The Stepsister Scheme.
Echoing the sentiments said here already about the poses being unrealistic. Also wanted to add that when I had my (thus far) only set of professional photos taken at the fair age of 18, the poses I was put into by the photographer were unbelievably painful. Even the head shots involved leaning forward to get a specific angle of the neck and chin. The photographer bragged about how much pain he put other models through, because the look of the photo (and the art, as you have shown) is more important than the human. It’s fascinatingly insane.
http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/15715572060/http-www-jimchines-com-2012-01-striking-a-pose
I put this post up on my tumblr!
You’re awesome for doing this!
Also, if you want more material, I have some fantasy art covers on my tumblr too, as well as the comic poses… (or if you just want to see more examples of this XD )
Sweet, and thank you! I’ve actually been looking through your tumblr — it was recommended many times by people who read my post. Love it!
Ha ha, brilliant!
I work in the games industry, and one of the artists worked on this classic at his previous company:
http://clzimages.com/game/large/50/50_1770_0_XG3ExtremeGRacing.jpg
The image originally started out a bit more plausible, but the publisher kept on insisting that the poor woman’s spine had to be broken in order to show both boobies and bum more prominently…
Wow, that was really enlightening! Thankyou!
Oh, my…priceless! I’d long grumbled about the lack of clothing on UF heroines (insisting that mine be professional-looking in the fully clothed sense on my covers), but I hadn’t considered the poses themselves. Thank you for the entertainment…er, I mean the eye-opener, Jim…I will never again browse the fantasy section of the bookstore without remembering your valiant efforts here.
Oh, and I hope your back feels better!
I really appreciate you mentioning this. This is something that has always bothered me and often is overlooked as ‘just how the business goes’, which is really unacceptable. I am okay with sexuality, but the ‘butts and boobs’ contortions seen in comic books/bookcovers/videogames are too much. At that point its not sexy, its just skeezy. Anyway, thanks again! I am definitely going to look up some of your books to read now ^_^
Followed Kevin Hearn’s link here from facebook. Any one with the sense of humor to attempt this has just landed on my “authors I must read” list. Incidentally when I was studying illustration as part of an art major I never completed we were encouraged to draw the form in mid motion as apposed to static. Some of the cover art I’ve seen is combat possible provided the image is taken from an instant during a largern movement.
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[...] Striking a Pose (Women and Fantasy Covers) A while back, we had a discussion on the blog about the cover art for my princess novels. For the most part, I really like these covers, but they’re not perfect.Now I could talk about the way women are posed in cover art … or I could show you. I opted for the latter, in part because it helped me to understand it better. I expected posing like Danielle to feel a little weird and unnatural. I did not expect immediate, physical pain from trying (rather unsuccessfully) to do the hip thing she’s … [...]
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[...] Autor Jim Hines hat den Versuch gewagt und zum einen die Position auf dem Buchcover seiner Heldin na… und dann noch ein paar andere Covers – komplett mit entsprechender Bekleidung und Bewaffnung. Ich hätte mich vor lauter Lachen fast verschluckt und seine Bemerkungen zu den Posen machen alles noch besser. Wer im Büro surft, sollte die Links vielleicht nicht klicken. Quelle: Rion Sabean [...]
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[...] a moment to look through two posts by author Jim Hines and book blogger Anna. Both attempt to replicate poses from SF/F jacket art, with mixed success. I [...]
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[...] Strike a Pose – Author Jim C. Hines bravely mimics a number of fantasy novel covers that feature women in…interesting poses. [...]
[...] C. Hines, author of several excellent series and feminist and advocate for rape victims, and his photoshoot trying to replicate female poses from book covers, and in response, genre book reviewer Anna doing [...]
[...] finally Jim C Hines has posted a hilarious entry about female poses in SF and Fantasy books. He strikes a pose and compares and contrast and the commentary is beyond [...]
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[...] I have to give a shout-out to fantasy author Jim Hines for taking the extra step in regards to female characters and trying out a few cover poses – just [...]
[...] O autor Jim C. Hines, publicou recentemente a capa para o seu novo livro The Stepsister Scheme e após perceber o quão estranhas eram as poses das heroínas da capa, resolveu fazer um levantamento das capas de livros de fantasia e fantasia urbana e recriá-las. A diferença aqui é que foi o próprio autor o modelo para as capas e o efeito final é hilariante e esclarecedor.
[...] right? Well, it only gets better. To read the entire post click here. I highly suggest you do. It will make you giggle for the rest of the day. Happy [...]
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[...] C. Hines: “Striking a Pose (Women and Fantasy Covers)”. A while back, we had a discussion on the blog about the cover art for my princess novels. For the [...]
[...] Fantasy writer Jim C. Hines tries pose like the women on fantasy book covers. [...]
[...] Hines did a great job commenting on the posing of female fantasy cover models through his own brand of performance art. However, by his own admission, Jim was not flexible [...]
[...] Jim C. Hines » Striking a Pose (Women and Fantasy Covers) [...]
[...] Hines posed for several more photos modelled after the covers of best-selling urban fantasy novels. The results – and Hines’ point – speak for themselves (warning: shirtless [...]
[...] die englischsprachige Autorenblogwelt geht gerade dieser Post von Jim Hines. Es geht darum, wie Frauen auf Fantasycovern dargestellt werden. Um zu zeigen, wie [...]
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[...] Fantasy Author Jim C. Hines does hysterical imitations of the women on the covers of fantasy novels. Striking a Pose [...]
[...] In an almost related only because it involves books and photographs way, if you haven’t seen Jim Hines’ attempt to reproduce female fantasy cover shots using live “action” shots of himself, you are reading the wrong blogs. [link] [...]
[...] Striking A Pose – Women And Fantasy Covers, from Jim C. [...]
[...] A ridiculous photo post by Jim C. Hines. He attempts to copy the poses of female characters on book covers and hilarity ensues. Of special note is an essay he links at the bottom from a martial artist/contortionist about female superheroes. [...]
[...] the ways that sexy women are posed on the covers of fantasy novels.
[...] get used to the change. That said, despite the post being appropriately mocked in photo-shoots (see here for the male perspective and here for the female perspective), I think it’s my favorite cover of the series. Book two [...]
[...] Striking a Pose and Follow-up to the Fantasy Poses from Jim C. Hines shows us how rich chiropractors would be if everyone defaulted to sexy cover-art poses. Warning: contains images of a balding white guy topless. [...]
[...] the imagery is actually worse than that found in modeling. For one thing, take a look at Jim Hines trying to assume poses from fantasy covers. Yikes. Whereas there’s a limit to what Photoshop can do, fantasy art knows no such [...]
[...] Awkward Fantasy Novel Cover Poses of the Day: Comics aren’t the only medium with covers featuring women in uncomfortable poses. In fact, fantasy novels might be even worse, as author Jim C. Hines discovered while trying to strike the same poses as the women in the cover art. [...]
[...] Link -via Althouse [...]
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[...] [...]
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[...] [...]
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[...] hinder her narrative, make her a hyper-sexualized icon of impossible poses and proportions (see: urban fantasy cover art), or stop her from relating to other [...]
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