Fiskception: Dissecting Correia’s Critique of MacFarlane
1/30: Comments are back on, in case there are points you feel you need to make that haven’t already been covered in the ~350 posted comments from yesterday. The goblins (and fire-spider) stayed away yesterday, but will be munching comments today as needed.
Hint: if you demean a human being’s gender or sexual preference by equating it to an attraction to animals or furniture? If you question the mental health of an individual who doesn’t fit into your narrow worldview? The goblins will eat your comment.
While we’re at it, I’ve noticed a few people responding to arguments from both me and Correia by basically saying, “Well, his books suck!” Can we not do that? Unless it’s directly relevant to the argument, it feels like a cheap shot, and doesn’t actually address what’s being discussed. So yeah, the goblins will be munching on off-topic book-bashing, too.
1/31: I don’t believe I actually have to say this, but telling someone that they, or people just like them, made Naziism what it was, will also get your comments fed to the goblins.
3/21: I’m closing comments for good. People have moved on to other arguments, and this post seems to be getting spam-bombed pretty heavily for some reason…
#
This is gonna be a long one.
The backstory: Author Alex Dally MacFarlane wrote an article called Post-Binary Gender in SF: An Introduction over at Tor.com, calling for “an end to the default of binary gender in science fiction stories.”
One week later, author Larry Correia wrote a response to MacFarlane’s piece, called Ending Binary Gender in Fiction, or How to Murder Your Writing Career. (Side note: you’ll probably want to avoid the comments on that one.)
I tried to ignore it. There’s no way I’m going to change Correia’s mind about this stuff, any more than his post changed my thinking. But of course, there are a lot of other people lurking and participating in the conversation, and while I know this is going to do bad things to my blood pressure, I think it’s a conversation worth having.
I’m following Correia’s general style here. My responses will be italicized. His original content is indented.
This was sent to me on Facebook the other day. I made some comments there, but then I got to thinking about it and decided this thing was such a good example of how modern sci-fi publishing has its head stuck up its ass that it really deserved its own blog post. My response is really directed toward the aspiring writers in the crowd who want to make a living as writers, but really it works for anybody who likes to read, or who is just tired of angsty emo bullshit.
I wonder which is more angsty … an author calling for our genre to move beyond binary gender, or another author spending 4000+ words about how people like MacFarlane are symbolic of everything that’s wrong with the genre, and are destroying fun.
Okay, aspiring author types, you will see lots of things like this, and part of you may think you need to incorporate these helpful suggestions into your work. After all, this is on Tor.com so it must be legit. Just don’t. When you write with the goal of checking off boxes, it is usually crap. This article is great advice for writers who want to win awards but never actually be read by anyone.
I agree that if you’re writing a story with the kind of checklist Correia describes, you’re probably going to get a bad story. But what exactly are the suggestions Correia objects to? MacFarlane never says all writers must now include at least one non-binary character. She says only that she wants readers to be aware of non-binary texts, and wants writers to stop defaulting to them. Not that authors should never write cismale or cisfemale characters. Just be aware that there are other choices, and make conscious choices about your writing.
Now do yourself a favor and read the comments… I’ll wait… Yeah… You know how when my Sad Puppies posts talk about the “typical WorldCon voter”? Those comments are a good snapshot of one subtype right there.
From the comments to Correia’s piece:
- “I am so tired of these pretentious twats. Err, dicks. Err… pre-op alternative genitals.”
- “The hilarious thing is my books are filled with characters who are non-white, non-male, non-straight, occasionally trans and from a mixmaster of genetic and cultural backgrounds … But I don’t write books for leftist pussies so they’ve never read my books.”
- “If this is the level of education of the typical WorldCon voter, it’s no wonder the GOOD writers don’t win awards. These loonies wouldn’t recognize good writing if Earl Harbinger yanked out their guts and used the intestines to piece out quotes from Jane Austen.”
Do we really want to start arguing about what one’s commenters say about one’s audience?
I also know from that Facebook thread that a lot of people tried to comment and disagree for various reasons, but their posts were deleted. (and some of them even swore that they were polite!). But like most modern lefty crusades, disagreement, in fact, anything less than cheerleading, is “intolerance” and won’t be tolerated. Meanwhile, my FB thread had lots of comments and an actual intelligent discussion of the pros and cons from both sides (and even transsexual communists who actually like to enjoy their fiction thought this Tor.com post was silly), so remember that the next time a snooty troll calls my fans a “right wing echo chamber.”
If Tor.com is deleting comments for disagreement, then that’s a serious problem. But skimming through the 100+ comments on the article, I find plenty that disagree with MacFarlane, or argue with what she’s saying. Tor.com does have a moderation policy, so I’d expect comments that violated that policy to get booted. Beyond that, I don’t know the details of the allegedly polite commenters who claim to have been booted for not cheerleading enough, so there’s not much more for me to say about this one.
ETA: I’m told one comment was deleted for stating that non-binary people are mentally ill, which would seem to violate #1, #2, and #4 on Tor.com’s moderation policy. There may have been other deletions, but this is the only one I’m aware of.
ETA2: One of the Tor.com moderators comments on the deletions here.
If you can’t stomach the comments long enough to hear what a typical WorldCon voter sounds like, let me paraphrase: “Fantastic! I’m so sick of people actually enjoying books that are fun! Let’s shove more message fiction down their throats! My cause comes before their enjoyment! Diversity! Gay polar bears are being murdered by greedy corporations! Only smart people who think correct thoughts like I do should read books and I won’t be happy until my genre dies a horrible death! Yay!” (and if there is beeping noise in the background, that’s because they’re backing up their mobility scooter).
So let’s break this pile of Gender Studies 101 mush down into its component bits and see just why some sci-fi writers won’t be happy until their genre dies completely. Like my usual Fisking, the original article is in italics and my comments are in bold.
Because calling for an awareness that not all people fit into a simple binary gender system = KILL ALL THE SCIENCE FICTION!!!
In other news, I believe we should do something about racism in this country, which actually means I WANT TO DESTROY AMERICA!1!!!1!
Post-Binary Gender in SF: Introduction, by Alex Dally MacFarlane
I want an end to the default of binary gender in science fiction stories.
I want lots of things too, doesn’t mean I can have them. Right out the gate that’s a pretty bold statement. And by bold, I mean ridiculous.
How dare people want things! How ridiculous that people want things I don’t personally agree with! You empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction.
What is this “default of binary gender” he wants to end? It is that crazy old fashioned idea that most (as in the vast majority) of mammals, including humans, can be grouped into male and female based upon whether they’ve got XX or XY chromosomes. Sure, that’s medically true something like 99.999% of the time, which would sort of make it the default.
1. Alex MacFarlane is female.
2. You ask what the default is that she wants to end. She answers that in the following paragraph. Which doesn’t seem to stop you from running off to declare gender = chromosomal/biological sex.
Oh, and “default” means that is your assumed baseline.
So that whole thing where people are male or female except for some tiny exceptions and that is kind of the assumption until proven otherwise is standard, so this guy wants to end that. (I’m assuming Alex is a dude, but then again, that is just me displaying my cismale gendernomrative fascism)
Cismale gendernomrative fascist? Whatever. What Correia is displaying here is his awareness that he’s making an assumption, his awareness that the assumption might be wrong, and his unwillingness to do 30 seconds of research to verify his assumption. Or just read the bio at the end of MacFarlane’s article. Either because he’s lazy, or because he doesn’t see any need to treat people he disagrees with respectfully. Or both.
What do I mean by “post-binary gender”? It’s a term that has already been used to mean multiple things, so I will set out my definition:
Post-binary gender in SF is the acknowledgement that gender is more complex than the Western cultural norm of two genders (female and male): that there are more genders than two, that gender can be fluid, that gender exists in many forms.
Wait… male and female are Western Cultural Norms? Uh… No. That is a biological norm for all the higher life forms on Earth so that species can replicate themselves (keep in mind, this is SCIENCE fiction he wants to change). I like how Western Culture is the root of all that’s evil though, even though male and female are cultural norms in pretty much every human society there has ever been.
Read more carefully. The Western cultural norm is to genders; that doesn’t mean two genders is exclusively a Western cultural norm. See also, nickels are coins, but not all coins are nickels.
And yes, male and female are cultural norms in pretty much every human society EVER! Except Mesopotamia, India, Siberia, Illiniwek, Olmec, Aztec, Maya, Thailand, Lakota, Blackfoot, Indonesia, Swahili, Azande, and all of the other cultures that historically or currently acknowledge the existence of more than two genders.
Also, nitpick. Gender was a grammar term for how you referred to the different sexes. Being male or female is your Sex. Or at least, that’s what the word meant until colleges invented the Gender Studies major for those students who found Liberal Arts way too academically grueling.
Paraphrase: “Ha, ha. People who disagree with me are dumb!”
Now, before we continue I need to establish something about my personal writing philosophy. Science Fiction is SPECULATIVE FICTION. That means we can make up all sorts of crazy stuff and we can twist existing reality to do interesting new things in order to tell the story we want to tell. I’m not against having a story where there are sexes other than male and female or neuters or schmes or hirs or WTF ever or that they flip back and forth or shit… robot sex. Hell, I don’t know. Write whatever tells your story.
But the important thing there is STORY. Not the cause of the day. STORY.
Because readers buy STORIES they enjoy and when readers buy our stuff, authors GET PAID.
I … actually, I pretty much agree with him here. People read for story, not for checklists or quotas or lectures. I see nothing in MacFarlane’s article to suggest she believes any differently. Calling for authors to be more thoughtful about their craft doesn’t mean you’re telling authors to abandon story for MESSAGE.
But you know, readers also tend to enjoy stories where they can find characters like themselves. Which is easy if you’re a straight white dude, and gets progressively more difficult the further you stray from that default. Maybe if we want to write enjoyable stories, we should try looking beyond the same old default that’s been done again and again throughout the history of the genre.
Robert Heinlein had stories where technology allowed switching sex. Great. That’s actually a pretty normal sci-fi trope where in the future, there’s some tech that allows people to change shape/sex, whatever, and we’ve got grandmasters of sci-fi who have pulled off humans evolving into psychic space dolphins or beings of pure energy. If that fits into the story you want to tell and you want to explore that, awesome for you. I’ve read plenty of stories where that was part of that universe. If your space whales that live inside the sun have three sexes, awesome (that one was my novella push on Sad Puppies 1).
But this post wasn’t about, hey write whatever mind expanding sci-fi ideas you want, nope, it want to end the norm in order to push a message. Post like this are all the same. You can swap the message around, and whatever the particular norm is, or whatever the particular message is, when you put your pet-peeve message before story, odds are you are going to bore the shit out of your reader.
Yep. Putting message before story will tend to bore your reader.
Now, if the only way you can imagine including a “non-default” character in your story is to make it a Message Story, then guess what — you’re probably a shitty writer. You can have gay characters in a story without making it a Gay Story. Austistic characters without having to write an Autism Story. Black characters without having to write a Race Story.
It’s a pretty big world out there. Why are we so scared to write about more than a limited, narrow piece of it?
People who do not fit comfortably into the gender binary exist in our present, have existed in our past, and will exist in our futures. So too do people who are binary-gendered but are often ignored, such as trans* people who identify as binary-gendered.
Will exist in the future? Probably. Should they be the default for your story? No way. Ignored? Hardly. Is that denying reality?
I don’t know what he’s saying here.
Okay, so I write a book, and let’s say that it has 20 characters in it. What is the acceptable percentage of them that should be transgender? How many boxes must I check in order to salve a blogger’s liberal angst? Let’s see… Only like 1 in 50,000 people have sex changes performed. So at 20 characters a book… If I have one character who has had a sex change show up every 2,500 books I write, I’d be statistically accurate.
Oh, yay. We’re back to quotas and checklists.
Ignoring the uncited and inaccurate statistics here, let’s flip this around. How many musclebound manly white men do I have to write about in my stories in order to convince people like Correia that it’s not a secret subversive left-wing liberal Message? How many big-busted blonde women need to throw themselves on my hero’s penis to satisfy his insecurities that non-white, non-male people might start to have an actual voice?
Oh, but now you’re going to tell me that gay people make up anywhere from 1-4% of the population. Fantastic. Except gay people are still the same sex they were born with. Gay dudes are still men and gay chicks are still women. This blogger didn’t say he wanted an end to default sexual orientation, he wants an end to default binary sex. If you think sci-fi doesn’t have people who don’t swing both ways, you’ve not read much sci-fi.
Right, so you’re throwing bad statistics out about a made-up argument that you acknowledge MacFarlane didn’t even bring up.
I think you’re wrong, because kitties are cuter than puppies. Which has nothing to do with anything Correia actually said, but that seems to be how we’re playing the game now.
Now, if I’m writing a sci-fi story set in Space Berkley or the Tenderloin District of the Future, then I’d probably have plenty of Hirs and Shmisters or whatever. Whatever fits the story, but until then how about not trying to enforce Equal Opportunity against our imaginary people?
(and if you really want to get crazy in the speculative fiction department, what with all this BS with made up pronouns to get rid of Him and Her, what the hell are romance languages supposed to do? Latino. Latina. Latinu? Latinsexyrobot?)
Language should be static and never evolve, which is why all future blog posts will be written in ancient Sumerian.
Here’s the problem. From a nuts and bolts story telling perspective, your readers are going to assume that everything in your book is similar to the world they currently live in, until demonstrated otherwise.
In talking to readers, I find that most of them assume SF/F books will portray worlds dominated by straight white folks. Not exclusively, mind you, but the representation in our genre is most certainly not that close to the world we currently live in.
Unless you say that in the future everybody has been genetically modified to have 3 legs, they are going to assume that all your human characters have two legs. If you are going to demonstrate that something is different, then there needs to be a reason for it. So if you say all humans have 3 legs, but it doesn’t play into the story at all, then why bother? And every time you change something to be different from the expected, there had better be a reason for it or you will quickly just annoy your reader.
I agree. When you make a choice about character, you should have a reason for that choice.
Making a character male or female is a choice. Making a character white is a choice. Making a character straight is a choice. But it’s a choice often made because these are the default, and the writer is lazy.
Reading sci-fi like that grows tiresome. It is like listening to an inexperienced little kid saying “Look, I can do THIS! And now I can do THIS! Isn’t that the neatest thing EVAR!?” And your response is “Yeah, yeah, that’s special…” when you’re really bored as shit and don’t care how tall their Lego tower is the 50th time.
I’m not sure what sci-fi he’s referring to, and I’m a little skeptical about how much of it he’s actually read, given his arguments. But I find stories that explore a more diverse world, that present different characters and stories I haven’t read a thousand times before, to be much more interesting. There’s comfort and enjoyment in reading the same-old genre tropes and tales too, but Correia sounds a lot like he’s bashing a genre you’ve never read.
Also, screw you. My LEGO tower is AWESOME.
If your story is about exploring sexual identity, awesome. Write that story. But only a fool is going to come along and tell you that you need to end the default of all your characters having ten fingers, because there are people in the world born with twelve and how could you be so insensitive to those who have lost fingers? Because awareness.
So if humans having 5 or 6 sexes in the future is part of your story, write it. If it isn’t part of the story, why would you waste words on it? Oh, that’s right, because MESSAGE.
ProTip: Focusing on message rather than story is a wonderful way for writers to continue working at Starbucks for the rest of their lives.
ProTip 2: If the only reason you can think of to include characters who aren’t the default is because MESSAGE, you’re a shitty writer. You might be a popular writer, because there are certainly plenty of people who want to devour books that don’t challenge them in any way, but that doesn’t make you a good writer. That’s probably an argument best saved for another blog post, though.
I am not interested in discussions about the existence of these gender identities: we might as well discuss the existence of women or men. Gender complexity exists. SF that presents a rigid, unquestioned gender binary is false and absurd.
Yes. Topic of the Day X exists! You know what else exists? Child abuse. So I’d better make sure I put that in every book I write.
It’s so much easier to argue with people if I deliberately misinterpret and oversimplify what they’re saying, isn’t it?
Because readers love that. If I’m telling a story about rocket ships, readers love it when your characters pause to have a discussion about animal cruelty, pollution, the dangers of over prescribing psychotropic drugs, or how we need to be sensitive to people with peanut allergies too. Readers are totally into being preached at about author’s favorite causes.
Have you ever gone into Barnes and Noble, went to the clerk at the info desk, and said “Hey, I really want to purchase with my money a science fiction novel which will increase my AWARENESS of troubling social issues.”? No? This is my shocked face.
Not that you can’t get a cause into your story, as long as you do it with skill. But the minute you destroy the default just to destroy the default, congratulations, you just annoyed the shit out of the reader. You want to slip in a message and not annoy your customers, that takes skill, so until you have developed your skills, don’t beat people over the head with your personal hang ups.
How about if my story isn’t in any way, shape, or form concerned with sexual identity (or whatever some reviewer’s personal hang up is today) I don’t waste words writing about it, and readers who want to can just assume that those people exist in the universe but they don’t happen to have speaking parts in this particular novel, if they care enough to think about it at all, which they probably won’t.
“Those People exist in my stories. They’re just not important enough to have speaking parts in this book. Or those other books. Or the majority of the books in our field.”
I intend to use this column to examine post-binary SF texts, both positively and critically, as well as for discussions of points surrounding this subject.
And I intend to use this column to go beyond Ursula K Le Guin’s The Left Hand of Darkness.
Read that a long time ago among the thousands of books I read as a kid. Vaguely remember it. Thought it was good, if I recall correctly.
I liked it, though I have to admit I find LeGuin’s nonfiction even better than her fiction.
Kameron Hurley wrote several years ago about the frustration of The Left Hand of Darkness being the go-to book for mind-blowing gender in SF, despite being written in 1968. Nothing written in the decades since has got the same traction in mainstream SF discourse—
Maybe that’s because Le Guin told a story that happened to have this blogger’s pet topic in it, that was still a story readers found interesting, as opposed to crafting a message fic manifesto, that readers found boring and forgettable?
I think the argument here is that LeGuin is the only one in the past 45 years who’s written about non-binary gender without writing a MESSAGE story. Which is a ridiculous argument, unless you buy into the tautological silliness that any story about non-binary gender = MESSAGE story.
and texts have been written. For a bit of context, 1968 is almost twenty years before I was born, and I’m hardly a child.
HARDLY! Well, there you go. I know when I’m looking for professional advice about how to succeed as a professional writer, I’m going to listen to somebody in their mid-twenties.
Hey, you’d better listen up. I’m betting this blogger went to COLLEGE!
“MacFarlane is wrong because I’m older than her!”
One of the reasons Hurley considers for this situation (raised by someone on a mailing list she belonged to) is that:
“…perhaps Le Guin’s book was so popular because it wasn’t actually as radical as we might think. It was very safe. The hetero male protagonist doesn’t have sex with any of the planet’s inhabitants, no matter their current gender. We go off on a boys’ own adventure story, on a planet entirely populated by people referred to as ‘he,’ no matter their gender. Le Guin is a natural storyteller, and she concentrates on the story. It’s not overly didactic. It’s engaging and entertaining.”
Holy shit… Wait… You mean this story has stuck around because “she concentrates on the story”? Engaging and entertaining? Blasphemy!
Yet, people like this don’t get why message fic books win piles of awards, yet totally fail in the market. See, the problem the modern literati twaddle peddlers run into isn’t that readers are insensitive rubes who don’t understand the plight of whatever their liberal cause of the day is, it is because they want to enjoy what they read. Their entertainment time and money is limited. Why spend it being preached at?
Once again misrepresenting the argument or just missing the point.
The next few paragraphs are very interesting, because they give you a glimpse into the mind of the modern literati.
Alex Dally MacFarlane IS the Modern Literati! She should totally get that on a T-shirt, or turn it into a superhero costume.
The Left Hand of Darkness certainly has been radical, as Hurley says, in its time, in the subsequent years and in the present. I have spoken to several people who found The Left Hand of Darkness immensely important: it provided their first glimpse of the possibility of non-binary gender. The impact that it has had on people’s realisations about their own gender is not something I want to diminish, nor anyone else’s growth in understanding.
However, I do think it can be very palatable for people who haven’t done a lot of thinking about gender. It is, as Hurley says earlier in her post, the kind of story that eases the reader in gently before dropping the gender bombs, and those bombs are not discomfiting for all readers. Of course they’re not. How can one text be expected to radicalise every reader?
I don’t want to cast The Left Hand of Darkness aside. It’s an important part of this conversation. What I do want to do is demonstrate how big that conversation truly is. Other texts have been published besides The Left Hand of Darkness, many of them oft-overlooked—many of them out of print. Some of them are profoundly problematic, but still provide interesting questions. Some of them are incredible and deserve to be considered classics of the genre. Some of them are being published right now, in 2014.
Fascinating. To the literati, books are all about dropping truth bombs. (as long as the truth agrees with their predetermined notions, obviously) This one is about sex, but you could swap that out for the evils of capitalism, or whatever bullshit they’re hung up on today. And of course, since publishing is an insular little industry based in the Manhattan echo chamber of proper goodthink, all the message fic that gets pumped out is stuff that just annoys the regular reading public.
More straw-manning. Yay. But yes, there are in fact people who think that maybe — just maybe — we should have stories that are more than mindless fluff perpetuating the same tired stereotypes. There are also people who recognize that all stories carry certain assumptions and messages and “truths.” Good Triumphs Over Evil. Freedom Is the Bestest Thing in the Universe. Intellectual Arrogance Will Destroy You. If Correia thinks his own personal bullshit doesn’t shape the stories he writes, then he’s a fool.
Also, damn. Bitter, much?
You want a truth bomb? Readers hate being preached at. Period. Even when you agree with the message, if it is ham fisted and shoved in your face, it turns you off. Message fic for message fic’s sake makes for tedious reading. Yet, as this stuff has become more and more prevalent, sci-fi has become increasingly dull, and readership has shrank.
Of course, the literati won’t be happy until everything is boring ass message fic and nobody reads sci-fi anymore, because then they’ll be super special snowflakes.
You know what’s boring? Yet another book about manly straight white dudes doing manly straight white things. You can’t preach about how boring conformity is bad for the genre, then spend 4000 words arguing with someone trying to challenge a piece of that genre conformity.
Okay, obviously you can do that, but I think it’s rather silly.
Amal El-Mohtar wrote a piece about the process of finding—having to find—a pioneering woman writer, Naomi Mitchison, and followed it up with a post where she said:
“It breaks my heart that we are always rediscovering great women, excavating them from the relentless soil of homogenizing histories, seeing them forever as exceptions to a rule of sediment and placing them in museums, remarkable more for their gender than for their work.”
Ah, pseudo-intellectual university humanities department speak… How I have missed you.
Writing should be simple and basic. “Invisible prose.” Because Conformity. Or something.
Yes. Because you shouldn’t elevate a book because you thought it was good and you want to share it with others, you should elevate a book because the sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, or personal philosophy of the author checks a box on the liberal angst/white guilt checklist.
The typical WorldCon voter, when presented with 5 nominees for a category, and their clique’s personal favorite writer isn’t on there, and not having actually read any of the works, will go through the authors and rank them according to the order that best assuages their hang ups. Oooh, a paraplegic transsexual lesbian minority abortion doctor with AIDS who writes for Mother Jones? You’d need a wheelbarrow to carry all the Hugos.
[Citation needed]
Quality? Popularity? Staying power? Influence? Isn’t that what makes something a classic? Not to the modern literati. We have to elevate works by people according to what they checked on their EEOC form. Meanwhile, hatey-McHatertons like me read books and like them, even when we don’t know anything about the author. I didn’t know what sex Lois Bujold or Wen Spencer where the first time I read one of their books, but I knew the writing was good. I couldn’t tell you what writers are gay or like to cross dress either, but I can tell you who I enjoy reading.
You realize that’s what El-Mohtar is saying, right? That we need to stop recognizing women writers as curiosities, noteworthy because, “Hey look, a woman wrote something good!” That we need to move past the assumption that all of the great works of literature were written by men. That we need to stop ignoring women’s accomplishments just because they’re women.
And of course, I know you would never poo-poo a book because it has girl cooties, but historically, that’s certainly been the trend. I’m glad to know you’re on board with wanting to do away with that trend.
It seems to me that there’s a similar process for post-binary texts: they exist, but each reader must discover them anew amid a narrative that says they are unusual, they are rare, they sit outside the standard set of stories. This, at least, has been my experience. I want to dismantle the sediment—to not only talk about post-binary texts and bring them to attention of more readers, but to do away with the default narrative.
Because nothing is going to make an author successful like copying things that were unpopular before.
MacFarlane: “I want to talk about these books and stories that don’t get a lot of attention, and expand the kind of stories we read and create.”
Correia: “Copying unpopular stuff will make you unsuccessful!”
Hines: “Huh???”
That process of (re)discovery is probably inescapable. A bookshop, a library or a friend’s/family member’s bookshelves can’t contain every book ever published, so new readers will always have to actively seek out stories beyond the first ones they encounter. What if, El-Mohtar wonders, the first books often included Naomi Mitchison? What if the first books often included multiple post-binary texts as well?
Wait… So the purpose of reading is to get people to accept non-binary gender? Well, huh… All this time I’ve been under the impression people primarily read for enjoyment. So that’s what I’ve been doing wrong!
Bored now. I hope Correia moves on to something new and interesting soon. The same old misreading and straw-manning is getting dull.
The English professor says: “For young people and new readers, wouldn’t it be nice if we shoved IMPORTANT WORKS about Special Topic X down their throats rather than something they might enjoy? Now I wonder why most Americans don’t read for fun anymore after we beat them over the head through their entire education and forced them to read tedious classics until reading was seen as a chore… Odd.”
And for the small and dwindling percentage of us that still actually like to buy and read books, what I’m getting from this blogger is that they’re thinking “Let’s get this mind blowing stuff out there. Yeah, that’ll rock their little bourgeois world!” Okay, dude… They’re SCIENCE FICTION readers. You’re probably not going to stun them with your big shocking ideas. You really want to shock a sci-fi reader with your book nowadays? Actually entertain them.
As an interesting side note, the Guardian just did a report that revealed how much published authors really make. For most of us, it isn’t that much. I think the average was like 30k. The majority of published writers still have their day jobs. Only the top 1% made six figures.
I am the 1%.
So aspiring authors, if you want to actually make a living doing this, you can either listen to me and put story first, or you can listen to the grad student and focus on the pet message of the day.
Regular readers will know that I always say writers should have GET PAID in their mission statement, the reason I do that is because most of us DON’T.
Correia makes more money than you. Therefore he’s right.
I’ll certainly grant that Larry Correia is a successful writer. Therefore you should do what he does.
So is Ursula LeGuin. Who wrote an amazing novel about non-binary gender that’s still popular today. Therefore you should do what she does.
Look, NOBODY IS SAYING THAT STORY ISN’T IMPORTANT, or that you shouldn’t put story first. What they’re saying is that there are more stories out there, and more characters, and more possibilities to explore.
Conversations about gender in SF have been taking place for a long time. I want to join in.
Judging by how they’ve been “grooming” the comments there, when they say conversations they mean shut up and listen while they lecture you about something.
[Citation needed]
I want more readers to be aware of texts old and new, and seek them out, and talk about them. I want more writers to stop defaulting to binary gender in their SF—I want to never again read entire anthologies of SF stories or large-cast novels where every character is binary-gendered. I want this conversation to be louder.
Read that paragraph again and think about it… Think about it really hard. Nuts and bolts. Every single SF book, he wants to default to something other than what your audience thinks is normal. I want more people to seek out not just great books, or mind bending books, but books. Period.
Yep. How dare she wish for books to more accurately reflect the diversity of the real world…
Speaking of great sci-fi, wouldn’t Firefly have been so much better if Captain Mal had been a pre-op transsexual? And just think of the hilarious banter they could have about Jayne not being a girl’s name… never mind, because in the future that is insensitive.
Of course, good writers will just write their characters so that they’re interesting and compelling, rather than to check a box to make a special interest group happy. If I’m writing a story and it would make the story better to have some character be something other than the default, then I can put that in. If it doesn’t have a point, then it is a distraction to the reader.
Characters who are not straight or white or cisgendered male or whatever Larry Correia thinks of as the default have a reason to be included in the story. (Fortunately, white dudes like me don’t need a reason to exist. We’re the normal ones, you see. We’re supposed to be here.)
Here’s a reason: because people other than your narrow-minded “default” exist in the world. Because if you want to write a story that’s in any way reflective of the real world, you have to acknowledge that fact.
Except even then, a Hatey McHaterton like me will still probably do it wrong. There was a bad guy in Swords of Exodus named Diego. This guy was an enforcer for an international crime syndicate. He participated in underground knife fighting arenas against Yakuza and Russian Mafia members for fun. Diego could match Lorenzo in a fight. He was also a gay cross dresser who made a very convincing Celine Dion, so obviously, I got a review that talked about how I hate gay people… Even though in a book where almost all of the characters, including the protagonists, are some degree of bad guy, obviously this character is a demonstration of my homophobic hatey hate mongering.
Then there’s Big Eddie, but really, you can’t think of Eddie that way. His sexual orientation was Hurt People. If you were to give him a psych evaluation to see what his “gender identity” was, he’d check all the boxes, then burn the test and stab the psychologist.
As far as a character’s proclivities, for all you know my books are filled with pre-op transsexuals, only I’m not going to stop and talk about them and what they do off screen. In fact, the only time I talk about a character’s feelings on any topic in a book are when that helps flesh out that character in a manner that helps tell the story I want to tell.
“See, I wrote about a gay cross dresser, so you can’t accuse me of being homophobic!”
To that end, I’ll be running this column: posting every two weeks, with discussions of books and short stories, as well as interviews and roundtables with other writers and readers of post-binary SF,
Oh good. Because this topic really needs to be beaten home. I hear that there are actually some consumers out there who still actually read sci-fi, and we will never rest until this genre becomes so incredibly boring that we drive everyone away!
because I strongly believe it’s important to hear multiple voices.
Just not the ones that disagree in the blog comments.
Again, try reading the comments. Also, you seem to be accusing MacFarlane of deleting comments, when I suspect it’s the Tor.com staff who are responsible for moderating. I’m not 100% sure on that, but I suspect you’ve got your snark crossed here.
I’m particularly interested in science fiction at the moment, but I expect I’ll cross genres as I run the column.
Yeah. I can’t wait until he gets to urban fantasy. Yay.
I hope you’ll join me in making the default increasingly unstable.
Wow. Yeah. I’ll show you, Dad! You can’t tell me what do! Down with your cismale gendernormative fascism!
And back to the mockery and criticizing the author’s age rather than her ideas.
#
Well that was fun. My congratulations to anyone who read this far.
A reminder: I do moderate comments here, because I’m a freedom-hating commie I don’t have time or interest in trolls, name-calling, threats, etc. You’re welcome to comment, but as Wil Wheaton says, don’t be a dick.
Stareyes
January 29, 2014 @ 11:37 am
I like (I mean hate) Correia’s assertion that language is static. Just because a language has a certain number of grammatical genders means it will always have those. Which is why Spanish has three genders because it came from Latin which… oh, wait? Latin has a neuter gender and textbook Spanish doesn’t? Well, then.
It strikes me especially as wrong since… well, we’re SF fans. The evolution of society is our business. I normally consider ‘our world, but with FTL travel and robot maids’ either a vehicle for social satire or a lazy writing choice.
(Also the lack of asking ‘well, are people in the real world trying to address this?” It’s like Correia thinks that only English-language academics (not even Spanish or French-language academics!) grapple with this.)
I remember a quote from Elizabeth Bear that says she writes queer characters because the world she lives in includes them. Not including them would be like writing Los Angeles or New York City with only non-Hispanic white people: such folks live in LA or NYC, but I’ve heard residents comment that crowd scenes in movies that show a mostly-white LA or NYC look artificial because that’s not how their city looks. Her (and my!) world includes a few people who find they don’t fit neatly into the gender categories of ‘male’ or ‘female’, even if their anatomy probably matches one of these types*.
* I don’t know this for sure, because I was brought up that asking about one’s genitals is rude, save under specific circumstances.
Trisha Lynn
January 29, 2014 @ 11:38 am
I couldn’t read much further into Correia’s response without getting pissed off, mostly because he forgot to check the author bio at the bottom of the Tor.com article to confirm that he was using the right pronouns for MacFarlane. And then his argument started and I just could not in good faith endure any more of it.
(Also, I’ve never heard of his work, is he really any good? Then again, I’ve not read any of MacFarlane’s other work either, but at least she’s getting her pronouns right.)
I’m glad that you can see past what he wrote to take out the parts of his argument that actually make some sense and highlight where his opinion isn’t entirely full of shite. Too bad he wasn’t a good enough writer to do the same.
Alex Dally MacFarlane
January 29, 2014 @ 11:39 am
The first comment to get deleted said that non-binary people are just “insane” people, not actually non-binary. So I call bullshit on Correia’s little theory about polite~ comments getting deleted. And, yes, Tor.com moderators did the deletions, not me.
Your dissection really does show how he circles around his strawmen over and over while calling himself a fascist.
supergee
January 29, 2014 @ 11:42 am
People who write about nonbinary gender want to destroy real sci-fi because they don’t understand it. Like Isaac Asimov in The Gods Themselves.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 11:49 am
I haven’t read any of Correia’s fiction, but he’s a pretty popular and successful fantasy author. Sells better than I do, at any rate 🙂
Ken Marable
January 29, 2014 @ 11:52 am
Oh my goodness. You are a stronger person than me in actually managing to make it through Correia’s diatribe! I don’t think I could have stomached her post without your insightful commentary. (And I’m assuming Correia is a woman. I don’t know, I could be wrong.) 🙂
SuperNaut
January 29, 2014 @ 11:53 am
Fisking a fisk?
Jesus, go outside for a while.
Tomc
January 29, 2014 @ 11:57 am
Incredible number of misquotes here but considering the number of people you proudly proclaim they didn’t read the source material, I guess it is to be expected.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 11:59 am
Since I copied and pasted Correia’s text directly from his blog post, I’m a bit curious what you believe is being misquoted.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 12:00 pm
I live in Michigan. Have you *seen* what the temperature is like out there? I’m not going outside until at least June!
robin reid
January 29, 2014 @ 12:02 pm
Thank you for a lovely lunchtime read–I love a good fisking, and this was one of the best, plus it alerted me to something on tor.com I’d like to read, AND I need to check out Alex’s work in general.
I’m one of those evil genderbending queer radical academic types, and so I get to teach some classes with sff (I got a Ph.D. in English so I can teach it, that’s my evil conspiracy plan). I’m going to be teaching a “gender and the future” course next fall, and my current plans for the reading include the following:
Arctic Rising
Tobias S. Buckell
The Parable of the Sower
Octavia Butler
The Hunger Games
Suzanne Collins
Mira Grant
Feed
Life
Gwyneth Jones
Ammonite
Nicola Griffith
Trouble and Her Friends
Melissa Scott
Mike Murley
January 29, 2014 @ 12:04 pm
I’ve been reading science fiction and fantasy (which I see as separate genres) since the 1960s. I read good writers because they write good stories, starting with Heinlein and Asimov.
Intriguing possible alternatives that enhance a story is one thing. Agenda-driven politically based message “fiction” designed to promote conformity with whatever groupthink in in vogue is another. It falls into a genre I call “crap”.
There are, in Terran-based biology, two sexes (usually misidentified as “genders” – nouns have genders, people are one of two sexes). Male and female. This is reality. There are a significant number of human-based sexual preferences and gender identifications, which have become increasingly more apparent due to a larger number of humans having their basic needs met and having the leisure time to concern themselves with these (in first world societies, if we use the out-dated World Bank definition).
You see, when you are struggling to survive these are lesser concerns. Nowadays, at least in Europe, the US, Canada, etc., people have the leisure to worry about whether they were born with the right sex organs, etc. Or whether people can marry their sofa. Because propagating the species so the tribe has enough hunters to survive or you have kids to work the farm so you can eat or even to take care of you when you’re old just doesn’t matter. Food magically appears in the market even as we regulate farmers out of existence. Lights magically turn on even as we shutter power plants. And the omnipotent State, powerful beyond Huxley or Orwell’s wildest imagination, will terminate you – I mean “care for you” – in your dotage (see “Liverpool Protocols).
So, yes, ending binary gender normalization fascism in science fiction and fantasy is the issue of the day in our brave new world! Forward the writers and readers’ soviet popular front! Crush the anti-Soviet class enemy hooligans under the victorious heels of the collective!
But, dear comrades, forgive me if I neither purchase or read your historically inevitable dialectic. You see, I don’t like to be told anything and I vote with my filthy, evil capitalist dollars.
Marc Cabot
January 29, 2014 @ 12:04 pm
I am mostly on Correia’s side, but that was not bad, really, a few times you did point out something which he really didn’t seem to be considering.
However, in the broader context, I’m totally on his side, because almost all of your good points were pointing out that he was being excessively hyperbolic in responding to a column which, without purposefully being hyperbolic, said the writer’s main goal was to “end the default.” At multiple points in the column, she said, in various ways, “I think ALL SCIENCE FICTION should…” “I NEVER WANT TO…” And so forth. You can apologize for her if you want to, but I really don’t see any basis for you doing it. She seems to be entirely serious about becoming the Andrea Dworkin of binary-gender issues in SFF. She may back off later and talk about “just trying to use controversy to bring the issue to people’s attention” or some weaseling like that, but at this point so far as I can tell she meant every word.
So on her own head be it. She is being ridiculous* and she deserves the mockery she’s gotten and probably three or four supplemental shipments of mockery per additional column she devotes to this nonsense. If she had meant to have a serious discussion, Correia’s response would have been completely inappropriate. However, she didn’t and doesn’t, so it mostly wasn’t (and he wouldn’t have in the first place.)
*Bonus ridiculous points for a person in their mid-twenties asserting preemptively that they are “hardly a child.” What was that thing about liberals, conservatives and age, Sir Winston?
Marc Cabot
January 29, 2014 @ 12:07 pm
Multiple people have posted allegedly deleted comments in multiple locations, and while a few of them were iffy, most seemed reasonable enough. Either they’re all lying, or you are mistaken about the breadth of the Tor moderators’ actions in promoting rightthink. In either event you of course (I assume) are blameless, and it’s not right to hold you to account for it.
Susan
January 29, 2014 @ 12:08 pm
Trisha Lyn…Larry writes in the SF/fantasy genre. He has written military scifi, horror/scif (that’s the classification apparently but I didn’t see horror particularly), and a quite amazing dieselpunk/hardboiled PI that’s pretty hard to describe but it contains great characterizations, writing.
I consider his books fun and entertaining. That is what I want when I read a book (any book). He’s a NYT best selling author (which to me means very little but it’s good stuff). The characters in the Monster Hunter series are hilarious. SPOILER ALERT: Gnomes are gangstas, elves live in trailer parks. Orcs are actually a pretty amazing culture. Fun reading.
Larry is pro-first amendment, pro-gun, pretty much pro-anything that tends to annoy liberals and intellectual elitists. I like that. I tend to be the same way. However, also read and love Asimov, Heinlein, etc. He’s also a CPA, former business owner and pretty smart fellow. The “Cismale gendernomrative fascist” came from the name that someone called him on FB that was pretty pissed. Larry has embraced it, as you must do when called an awesome name like that.
Marc Cabot
January 29, 2014 @ 12:11 pm
Have you considered Heinlein’s “I Will Fear No Evil?” Just curious.
robin reid
January 29, 2014 @ 12:16 pm
Nope. I gave up reading Heinlein in disgust at about age 16 (and I’m 58 years old) plus I’m working with more contemporary authors/recent publications.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 12:16 pm
Sorry, I’d mourn the loss of your readership, but I’m too busy marrying my loveseat.
Marc Cabot
January 29, 2014 @ 12:18 pm
Fair enough. Thank you for answering.
Anthony Andrews
January 29, 2014 @ 12:21 pm
Note to self: Don’t bother reading Jim Hines.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 12:21 pm
Wow, no wonder Mike Murley supports Larry. There’s a whole ton of non sequiturs and straw men in his comment…
…and some untruths, too, like the idea that non-binary gender is a modern Western concept exclusive to the idle rich. Mike, did you not even read the list of languages/cultures that don’t adhere to binary gender? And gender (in non-linguistic context) is NOT the same thing as either biological sex or sexuality. It was “invented” pretty much because there is a continuum of identities that cannot be described by using either of those two classifications.
Amy Bauer
January 29, 2014 @ 12:24 pm
I think the dismissal in Correia’s tone toward McFarlane [she is younger than me, hasn’t sold enough books, must have gone to “College” in that snarky tone, not even deigning to read the post closely enough to realize she was female or he knew she was female (which I suspect) but was using his so-called ignorance to be able to dismissively use her term “cismale gendernomrative fascism”] shows such contempt, it just underlined everything McFarlane was trying to say.
I am sick to death of this mockery of intellectualism. All hail the uneducated who are somehow smarter because they live in the “real world” rather than than those ivory tower people who dare to read and think and attempt to enlighten themselves about other view points. If Correia wants to throw his contempt on those that managed a college education, he can do without this reader.
robin reid
January 29, 2014 @ 12:26 pm
I should note this isn’t a class about sf as a literary genre–it’s a “topic/theme” course that a number of people in my dept. teach that can be done with a variety of readings (or none!)–I do sff because that’s one of my areas. It’s also one that’s being listed as supporting our gender studies minor. My department doesn’t actually have an SF class — but, as I say, with all the Evil Postmodern Destroying Western Civilization Theory, I can put sff into just about any class out there!
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 12:31 pm
In other news: ALL FICTION IS MESSAGE FICTION. what people usually mean by “message fiction” is ” fiction that appears to promote (or sometimes even mention) ideas that I disapprove of and/or make me uncomfortable”. But that isn’t the whole story. “Normative” fiction has a message too; that the “norm” is important and superior and must be maintained at all costs.
I’ll give a brief example. There is a lot of talk about how there shouldn’t be black people in “historical” fantasy because there weren’t black people in real history. Leaving aside the key word “fantasy” (which kinda allows you to MAKE SHIT UP, like magic and dragons), this is just plain misguided. Look at the American West in the 1870s. Historical research I’ve done indicates that maybe 25% of cowboys and ranch hands were black. You try and write this and it is decried as “unrealistic”. Why? Because our view of the American West has been formed by the movies and TV series of the 30s through 60s. In other words, it was stories that shaped our view of history, and which now shape our view of what stories can be told. I doubt the film makers thought they were producing “message stories”, because they were white and their world was white and they neither knew nor cared that history might have been otherwise. But try and tell a story about black cowboys now? You’ll be told, over and over again, that it’s a “message story”.
Kathryn (@Loerwyn)
January 29, 2014 @ 12:31 pm
*Applause for Jim*
Thomas M. Wagner
January 29, 2014 @ 12:38 pm
“You want a truth bomb? Readers hate being preached at. Period.”
Coming from a Baen author, that’s…priceless.
Has he notified Tom Kratman of this?
Noddy
January 29, 2014 @ 12:38 pm
I’ve read Correia’s work, starting when he was self-published. His books all have the same plot, the same storyline, the same stereotypical characters. They’re brain candy, not requiring any thought or even any real connection to the characters.
There’s so very much more he could do, so many more stories even in his little world, with far more interesting plots than “man shoots big guns kills bad guys gets the gun loving girl”. It’s so predictable. Shoot-em-ups with monsters.
I think his books would be dramatically improved by thinking seriously about what Alex MacFarlane wrote and applying it to his own works. I know I’d do more than buy and ship them overseas for the troops to read if his books were more interesting and the characters more realistic.
robin reid
January 29, 2014 @ 12:38 pm
Brian: *LIKES* your post!
Also, you might be interested in this tumblr (I know, I cannot deal with tumblr much myself, but this is a great one to look at) on people of color in European art from roughly the fall of Rome to the 17th century:
http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/missionstatement
Eve
January 29, 2014 @ 12:40 pm
I think this Larry guy whom I’ve never heard of before today should never be allowed to join the SFWA. He certainly shouldn’t be eligible for any literary awards like the Hugo.
Abe
January 29, 2014 @ 12:43 pm
I think you are misunderstanding what Correia said. He merely said that entertaining is what a successful author does and that writing with the intent to preach is not a way to sell books. Le Guin, Asimov, Gemmel and Bear are among the successful writers who did/do write about non-binder gender characters and were successful because they included that aspect of their character sketch as part of the story, not just to state it for the purpose of keeping people happy. If a character’s identity/preferences are not an plot issue, why should it be brought up? Why bring up anything that doesn’t help entertain the reader and move the plot along? Do you have to describe every physical part of a character’s body (including sexual organs) and how they choose to use them when you write?
Write interesting stories. Discuss gender issues or sexual orientation issues or pollution or the state of neuroscience or anything else you want… but keep the discussion as part of the plot, not long diatribes. Who wouldn’t agree (despite what you may think of her writing/politics/personal life/etc.) that Atlas Shrugged wouldn’t have been a better story with less preaching and extended monologues?
Correia is intentionally inflammatory. That is what his reader’s like and how he is in real life. If you had done some basic research on him (the same way you said he should have done on Macfarlane), you would have known this. It isn’t like he hides it…
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 12:44 pm
The only tumblr I regularly visit 🙂
Andrea Harris
January 29, 2014 @ 12:45 pm
I tried to read Correia’s original piece, but my tiny lady brain couldn’t encompass the vastness of his supreme male intellect. (IOW, I got bored. I’ve dealt with manlyman sexists like this stooge my entire life, and I’m. Just. Bored.)
Anyway, his basic worry (and that of his fans) seems to be that once they let people publish stories featuring non-gender-binary characters and situations, readers will flock to them and ignore the he man manly she-woman girl girly “proper” fiction and authors of such will end up begging for coins on a street corner. We’re always being told that the “true spirit of competition” will make everyone up their game, so the proper response here should be to look on this as a challenge to write better stories, not insist that these upstarts should back off so no one has to leave their comfy writing niche.
Matthew S. Rotundo
January 29, 2014 @ 12:46 pm
“What was that thing about liberals, conservatives and age, Sir Winston?”
Yeah. Except Churchill never said what you think he said. Maybe because he recognized that stupid, self-valorizing horseshit for what it was.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 12:47 pm
“If you had done some basic research on him (the same way you said he should have done on Macfarlane), you would have known this. It isn’t like he hides it…”
You’re assuming I didn’t know this?
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 12:47 pm
See my “everything is a message story” comment above. I keep hearing this “if it isn’t relevant to the story leave it out” advice, but oddly I only ever hear it applied to issues like race, feminism, or gender issues. How often is it “relevant to the story” that the hero is Manly McWhiteman?
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 12:49 pm
Reader LOVE being preached at.. As long as they agree with what the preacher says. Which is why pretty much every writer has loyal fans. If readers hated being preached at, they wouldn’t exist.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 12:49 pm
I’m sorry, my snark-filter is working overtime today, and I’m not 100% sure what you’re suggesting here. Larry’s as eligible as anyone for the Hugo, and SFWA’s open to anyone with the required credentials, which he certainly exceeds.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 12:52 pm
I went to check and there are indeed several missing numbers now. The first deletion was comment 29 and that is the only one I saw before deletion. It is indeed the one that explicitly said “anyone who is not binary gendered is insane”. It is also, as far as I could tell, the only explicitly referred to both by other commenters and by a moderator. The others have “disappeared without trace”. Nevertheless there is plenty of dissent remaining on the thread so I am not sure the accusations of thought police activity are entirely justified.
Abe
January 29, 2014 @ 12:53 pm
Except that Correia rarely speaks on race or any other topic… He ignores it for the most part unless it is to bash racism or discrimination as part of his plot (Orc & Elf relationship?) He, and judging by the vast amount of his readers just don’t care to be preached at. He has characters of different races, species, genders and his women aren’t buxom blondes waiting for someone to take care of them… They tend to take care of themselves… and rescue the men.
So yeah, unless it is part of the plot, why include it? There are ways to include it if it fits in the story, but otherwise it is just wasted ink that people will gloss over.
Abe
January 29, 2014 @ 12:55 pm
No, I am assuming you would not create such a mistake after calling him out for it. I also think he knew and either missed the “s” in “she” when typing or made a simple mistake. He is not the type to leave that open a hole to criticize him.
Rick
January 29, 2014 @ 12:58 pm
Oh, where to start. First, yes, there are people out there that list their “gender/sex” however the heck you want to say it as other than male/female. Whoopdeedoo. Basic biology is… for evolved life forms on planet earth, there is male and female. There is not computersexual, there is not barcoloungersexual, there is not magazinesexual. There are just two.
Now, as a fiction writer, if you want to write about those, fine, go ahead. And that specific segment of readers that while go forth and multiply will remain stagnant or decrease in an increasingly dwindling market. Just like music genre’s, you audience will become limited by what you write. For an author to be published and reach a mass market that might be interested in buying their works, and thus ensuring that THE AUTHOR GETS PAID, which was the point of Larry’s post, message writing kills. I don’t know the original author, Alex, or her work. If she enjoys the underground scene of writing, like Crump did for artwork/comics in the late sixties, early seventies, great. More power to her.
HOWEVER… she is, in pure statement, wanting to impose HER desires on an entire genre, to decide for the READER what will and will not be acceptable in a book. She plainly states her goal to change a tenant of writing to suit her.
Honestly, Sci-fi has let me down quite a lot, lately. We’ve seen a shift way from pure speculative sci-fi the likes of which lead to things like cell phones and handheld computers, to fantasy based Buffy-with-a-different-name sparkly vampire love stories. I’d say she gotten a lot of what she wanted to begin with because women are written like men without penis’ nowadays. A causal perusal of the bookshelves at my local book store is filled with Buffy-lite vampirechics, witchchics, etc. Finding a pure speculative sci-fi book is like finding a unicorn and virgin at a motley cru concert.
As for your “strawman” comments, this unfortunately for you shows that you have very little depth of understanding of what you read. Either you don’t get the sarcasm that doesn’t leap up off the page and slap you in the face with it’s obviousness, or you don’t want to because it doesn’t fit the flow of the response fisk you desire.
I get what the original author is getting at, a need or desire to set aside normatives for the more esoteric to satisfy a “more diverse” segment of the population. However, what YOU are not getting is that that segment is not large enough to support the larger Sci-fi readership as a whole. And yes, I understand that the more “non-normative” segment wants characters to ‘relate’ to, but again, see the previous sentence.
Author’s should be paid. What an evil concept. That new writers might, for some craaaazy reason, want to, oh, i don’t know…pay their bills and eat and stuff…well, that’s just wrong on so many levels. Because everyone knows that “populist writing” can never be good, thought provoking, creative, blah blah blah yakety yakety.
From what I have read above, I honestly get the feeling that you follow the professor. Professor: The blue curtains obviously are a sign that the author was depressed, trying to delve into the despair he/she (gosh, there’s that binary sex thang again) was feeling. Author: The curtains were blue because I fuckin’ like blue.
Intellectual writing is great for writing term papers, getting published in magazines no one outside universities and small literary circles will read. If you want to crap ten cent words into papers in place of more easily followed five cent words, good for you. Enjoy. Have at it. Larry and other evil writers of popular fiction will laugh all the way to the bank. And since human kind for the large majority/part has decided that one mark of success is the $, he’s got a point. You make a point of saying that “money doesn’t mean good” to paraphrase. You even go so far as to use the term ‘shitty’ at several points, snidely implying that because his stuff is populist, it cannot be good.
So, what is considered ‘good’? Something that strikes a cord, provides entertainment and pleasure to those around the world that choose to spend their limited funds on it? No? Something that is “intellectual” and is never read by more than a professor and some other folk at a magazine or two, bound and published in a local university library never to be seen again even though it may contain the secrets of the universe, the human mind, the soul? If a tree falls… yadda yadda yadda.
Larry was speaking to a large audience, that might have a use for it in trying to get published on their own, earn a living, feed a family, contribute to society. It sounded like you and the original author like hearing the sound of your own voice.
TomcatTCH
January 29, 2014 @ 1:01 pm
Your formatting for the mobile version sucks.
This is much more difficult to follow on a smart phone compared to Larry’s post.
PO
January 29, 2014 @ 1:01 pm
Jim, I’ll admit that I came over from Larry’s link, though I know your goblins story is on my “look for in library” list.
Like Larry did, I initially found several of her phrases used absolutist (Never again read, etc). While on re-reading I can see what she may have been intending, they gave a bad first impression of hostility to any book that DOESN’T use binary-gender. Saying you are going to put down any book where the protagonist is a WASP is going to cause you to discard many good books. I also think that it would be better if an author who was uncomfortable/unknowledgeable about writing alt-gender parts NOT try to write them, rather than shove some stuff in, so he can say he checked the boxes.
As an explanation, several of the “I make more money” comments Larry made were continuations of discussions he’s posted the last couple of weeks about how much scifi/fantasy writers were making (generally, no so much) and the reasoning behind it. You obviously agree in part with his point about not writing to check all the boxes, especially when it comes at the expense of the story.
I did also want to point out something from when you mocked his commenters. The guy who wrote: ““The hilarious thing is my books are filled with characters who are non-white, non-male, non-straight, occasionally trans and from a mixmaster of genetic and cultural backgrounds … ”” is a published author who’s first book has a subplot where his protagonist has to come to terms with their bisexual attraction to a friend and the relationship the two of them will have. The guy wasn’t lying or misrepresenting his books when he wrote that line.
Ed Greaves
January 29, 2014 @ 1:05 pm
I’ve counted at least 12 missing (by the numbers) posts. Missing numbers on that site generally indicate some form of moderation has taken place. No idea what they contained, or if they deserved moderation, as I never saw said posts. But, it’s clearly more than one message missing.
R.S. Hunter
January 29, 2014 @ 1:05 pm
Very true.
Katekat
January 29, 2014 @ 1:07 pm
Absolutely great rebuttal to Correia!
And I feel obligated to point out that LeGuin very explicitly wrote a “message” story (if that’s what we’re calling it) with Left Hand of Darkness and with every single one of her stories – that’s part of what made them *great* fiction! I am so tired of people suggesting that great fiction is great because it *doesn’t* do this — great fiction is great when it explores its own issues *well*.
Rowyn
January 29, 2014 @ 1:09 pm
Correira’s “readers don’t like to be preached at” is amazing in context of his sermon. 😀 Which didn’t even need to be preachy! He even says things most people would agree with, like “your writing will gain a wider audience if you don’t hit them in the face with your political agenda”.
Though of course, lots of readers do love to be preached at — as long as they already believe. Both his fisk and, I am sad to say, yours, are more likely to bolster the morale of believers than to convert the ambivalent. :/
Did Correira sic his readers on you or did they find your post on his own?
GeekGirlsRule
January 29, 2014 @ 1:09 pm
I’ve deleted about a dozen comments, because I want to snark at some of the other commenters SO BADLY (especially the screaming ignorance about science, biology, and gender).
So, I will satisfy myself with saying, you’re awesome, Mr. Hines.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:11 pm
I know, and I apologize for that. Improving the mobile format for the website is on my to do list, but it’s not something I’ve gotten to yet.
Katekat
January 29, 2014 @ 1:11 pm
I’m not sure how you’re defining contemporary, but if you have time for another short story on your syllabus, I have a suggestion for you:
Ohara Mariko’s “Girl” (published in English translation both Monkey Brain Sushi and Speculative Japan) just because I love it. well, and it would fit with your theme)
Gaie Sebold
January 29, 2014 @ 1:12 pm
I am sure I was meant to be overwhelmed by Mr Correia’s incisive wit, not to mention his amazing ability to make his point without actual comprehension of his opponent’s stance, rational argument, evidence, courtesy or any of the other tools commonly supposed to be necessary for intelligent discussion. Perhaps I should retreat forthwith to my pink-frilled girly liberal fainting couch and cry woe that I ever dreamed of wanting to read or write about someone other than the sort of person Mr Correia thinks I should want to read or write about.
Sadly, I admit I am beyond saving and will probably continue to read and write things which actually interest me, which, alas, will not now include Mr Correia’s books. I’m sure he would be delighted to know that my filthy intellectual/liberal/girl-encootied coinage will never sully the pure and protean vigour of his sales.
Rick
January 29, 2014 @ 1:12 pm
And yes, there were typos in my response, I’m not a professional writer. Remember one thing, Shakespear was a populist writer. And like my wife says, in two hundred years, people will be studying Jackie Collins, not Joyce Carol Oates.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:14 pm
Thanks Ed & Brian. It’s possible that Tor.com is deleting comments purely for disagreeing with some ideology, but I’ve seen nothing to support that interpretation. That said, if that is what’s happening, I have a serious problem with it.
But given that there are multiple comments disagreeing with MacFarlane, and those haven’t been deleted or moderated, and the one comment we know about was a pretty blatant violation of Tor.com’s terms, I suspect the others were probably deleted for similar reasons.
But again, we have no way of proving that one way or the other.
Tom Kratman
January 29, 2014 @ 1:15 pm
Amy Bauer: I invite your attention to this: http://www.tomkratman.com/Ranthhour.html
Now _that’s_ how one sneers at intellectualism, which, by the way, has essentially nothing to do with having or not having a college education. (Me? BA, Poli Sci, BA, BC; Philosophy, JD, W&L.)
Brian: Ya know, while it strikes me as wrong to fail to include a group that was present and large, such as you cite to, this isn’t quite the same thing as giving large scale play to a group that is present, but tiny. Leaving aside the potential dishonesty, it’s also fraught with risk: “Oh, me, oh my, oh, nonononono, I can’t have the gender-reassigned person be the villain…” or “Oh, no; I’ve mentioned the transvestite awaiting gender reassignment surgery, but is he or she – Oh, no, I am so confused; what’s the latest code pronoun? – prominent enough. Never mind that – please, somebody, PLEASE supply me the latest code pronoun – isn’t very important to the plot; I must still make – I am still waiting for that pronoun, people! – central, key, to make up for the oppression of the ages….”
Bah.
You know one of the worst examples of lying in fiction? Shaara’s Joshua Chamberlain. Yeah, him. Medal of Honor. Brevetted 2 star. War hero. Governor of Maine. Head of Bowdoin College. Him. Shaara made him a great abolitionist, an idealist. It’s all nonsense. He was a militarist, through and through; worse than I am, matter of fact, and I’m pretty militaristic. He never gave a rat’s ass about slaves or freedmen. He was not an abolitionist. He tried to turn Bowdoin into a military school. He offered his services to the King of Prussia for the Franco-Prussian War. He loved war for its own sake and as a great test of manliness.
So, just out of curiosity, since you object to lying by ommission concerning black cowboys – and I agree with you in this – do you also object to lying by commission about the character and values of a great man?
Demetrias
January 29, 2014 @ 1:16 pm
Alex they did delete comments that were argumentative but not insulting. I post twice on there and had both comments deleted and never called anyone a name other than man and woman and trekkie. And its not the issue of writing more lgtb stuff that offends. It is the idea of changing the default. Alex and all her supporters brought up dozens of books were this issue was explored. Yet she still said that we had to destroy the default. There is no reason I shouldn’t be able to pick up one of your princess books and expect the princess to be biologically a woman. The vast majority of people want the characters to be just men and women. Sure every now and then its good to expand your horizons but that doesn’t require and end to the defaults. Its like getting rid of the english default on your computer. Sure every now and then a customer wants something like klingon or farsi but most people just want to play video games and surf the web and so the default english works for them. Do you really think the majority of twilight fans want Bella to secretly be a dude dressed as a girl? Or do they just want their every girl heroine they can fantasize about being?
MojoRonin
January 29, 2014 @ 1:17 pm
So Correia writes what he knows, writes what he likes, and is successful at it. To enforce a rule that a writer must include one issue or another is ridiculous. Correia is taking exception to a near-mandate that says if the story crams an issue down someone’s throat, then it has to be good. I’d like to think that an alternate gender or sexual orientation can be incorporated in a lot of fiction without it making the unprepared uncomfortable. Like Albus Dumbledore,gay character, and hugely popular with the fans. Didn’t really affect the character or the story. He was was he was and that is that. Anne Rice’s Vampire Chronicles have characters who are gay or bisexual. The characters’ orientation plays a huge role in the story. When I read Correia’s Monster Hunter series, I don’t care much about the orientation of the characters, I care if they live and hopefully defeat the antagonists.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:18 pm
Gender identity =\= biological sex.
Since you seem willfully incapable of understanding that, I freely admit to only skimming the rest of your comment, but I did see more straw men – I haven’t seen anyone here arguing that authors should not get paid, for example.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:20 pm
“First, yes, there are people out there that list their “gender/sex” however the heck you want to say it as other than male/female. Whoopdeedoo. Basic biology is… for evolved life forms on planet earth, there is male and female. There is not computersexual, there is not barcoloungersexual, there is not magazinesexual. There are just two.”
Thank you for that educated, informed, and not at all ridiculous or ignorant contribution.
“I’d say she gotten a lot of what she wanted to begin with because women are written like men without penis’ nowadays.”
That comment pretty much encapsulates how badly you’ve missed MacFarlane’s point.
“I get what the original author is getting at, a need or desire to set aside normatives for the more esoteric to satisfy a “more diverse” segment of the population. However, what YOU are not getting is that that segment is not large enough to support the larger Sci-fi readership as a whole.”
So your assumption is that “non-normatives,” to use your insulting terminology, won’t read fiction about anyone who isn’t like them? That the *only* audience for characters who don’t fit into a binary gender system is readers who also don’t fit into a binary gender system? That seems rather small-minded.
“Author’s should be paid. What an evil concept.”
As someone who makes a pretty decent living as a writer — you know, using my income as a writing to earn a living, feed my family, pay off my wife’s student loans, things like that — I’m actually on board with the idea of authors getting paid. Happily, I do pretty well on that front. But thanks for your concern for us authors!
Ken Marable
January 29, 2014 @ 1:21 pm
“Bonus ridiculous points for a person in their mid-twenties asserting preemptively that they are “hardly a child.” ”
Doesn’t seem any more ridiculous than Correia in his mid-thirties pulling a “kids now a days” on another grown adult. I’m sorry, but if he wants to pull an old man yelling at the clouds, he’s gotta be at least in the back half of a century in age. Mid-thirties is just ridiculous to be trying one of those rants.
(What’s also ridiculous is thinking criticizing someone’s age has anything to with the arguments they make. That’s basic logic 101.)
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:21 pm
PO – I know Mike, and I know he wasn’t lying about that. It was more the follow-up about us leftist pussies.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:22 pm
Totally unfamiliar with Joshua Chamberlain, or Shaara, but broadly, of you are going to write about real people, you should write them truly.
And good of you to completely misinterpret the point I was making, which was not in that instance about inclusion or exclusion, but about how and why all stories are message stories.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:23 pm
“Correia is taking exception to a near-mandate that says if the story crams an issue down someone’s throat, then it has to be good.”
Where are you seeing that near-mandate???
Ted Hall
January 29, 2014 @ 1:24 pm
Very nicely done. Reading the original writers post from beginning to end before deconstructing Larry’s fisking of it might have helped… but only if your intention had been actually understanding the points being made.
I’m sure Larry’s going to devote several minutes of his time to being concerned about your feelings on this subject, I know I got all the amusement I expected from your third hand screed…
Thanks for spending the time, putting Larry’s name in front of even more potential fans…
If we can’t get him an award, making money for him is a good alternative
Ted
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:24 pm
I’m 39. Does that mean I win?
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:25 pm
“Getting rid of the default” did and does not mean “getting rid of any instance of the current default”. As I read it, Alex was calling for greater inclusivity of a variety of genders, and a removal of the assumption (displayed many times in this comment thread) that binary gender is all there is. She was not calling for a removal of the portrayal of traditional male and female genders and gender roles, just a removal from that being an assumed state into which all characters must be shoehorned.
Of course, that is only my interpretation. But it seems a reasonable one.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:28 pm
Does that mean Larry is also getting my name in front of more potential fans and making money for me by linking to this from his Facebook page? I should send him a thank you note for that.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:28 pm
Um, except for the bit where Larry explicitly states his assumption that Alex is male?
Demetrias
January 29, 2014 @ 1:29 pm
The McWhitesmith is hardly ever an issue but Manly sure is. I mean what would the Conan stories be if he wasn’t manly? Conan would die on the first page.
Tom Kratman
January 29, 2014 @ 1:32 pm
That comment was more to the house than just to you, Brian, though clearly you had a part of it. Are all stories message stories, though. All of mine are, yes, though the message is not always as obvious as some might think. All of China Mieville’s stories are, yes. But ALL stories? No, I don’t think so, even if someone might read a message in any of them, the intent to convey a message has to be present to be a message story. I think.
Demetrias
January 29, 2014 @ 1:35 pm
It seems apt. I mean if his pro-gun activism stops people from reading his books despite his positive treatment of lgtb wouldn’t that show that Larry’s point that message gets in the way of selling books? So why should lgtb activism be any more applauded then pro-gun activism?
Ken Marable
January 29, 2014 @ 1:35 pm
Nope, I turned 40 in December. 🙂
However, seeing someone younger than me pulling “dang kids messing stuff up” argument points sure can make you feel old. Right up there with a couples weeks ago, a few students in a grad seminar I’m taking making jokes about all those “old moms at the bars, like in their 40s!” It’s nice to be reminded that 40 is SO OLD. I guess 40 is the new 80. Enjoy 39 while you can! 😉
Rick
January 29, 2014 @ 1:38 pm
I fully understand the gender normative stuff. Again, blind leading the blind. No, no one argued that they shouldn’t. The point Larry was making is that for new authors, following a message rather than serving a story means that you are going to be preaching to people and that turns them off. I’m sorry if you were incapable of following that logic.
Bibliotropic
January 29, 2014 @ 1:38 pm
I particularly love the part where he assumes that nobody has ever tried to deliberately seek out SFF that will challenge their worldview and broaden their minds about real-world issues. Apparently, the majority of people I know who read SFF don’t exist. Excuse me while I disappear in a poof of logic.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:39 pm
Which page do Valeria or Red Sonja die on?
Tomc
January 29, 2014 @ 1:40 pm
You should
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:41 pm
Except that preaching does not turn all readers off – only those who disagree with what’s being preached to them – and that at no point has anyone, to my knowledge, suggested that stories must preach rather than be stories. That’s another straw man from Larry and his coterie. Where in Alex’s original piece does it say “I don’t want SFF stories to be good stories any more”?
Demetrias
January 29, 2014 @ 1:42 pm
No it doesn’t mean get rid of any instance. It means get rid of the prevalence. Right now any book I pick up has at least 9/10 chance the male character being male. To get rid of a default would require 5/10 or less of a chance. Like I said, there are tons of books right now that deal with lgtb issues. You can encourage more people to right lgtb books without getting rid of the default.
Tom Kratman
January 29, 2014 @ 1:43 pm
Pretty much. Say, is that African Famine Expert Thomas Wagner you were replying to, Brian?
Muse
January 29, 2014 @ 1:44 pm
Wait – MY SF has a history of being bloody social commentary. What the hell does he think half of Heinlein was or all of Star Trek?
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:44 pm
Authorial intent vs reader interpretation is an interesting subject… But also a huge one. Another time for that. Apologies for not realizing the second point was opening out to a general question rather than continuing the point aimed at me.
Erica
January 29, 2014 @ 1:44 pm
I’m amazed you made it all the way through your rebuttal because about halfway through the quoted argument I was too sick and exhausted to read any further. That said, thanks for the takedown.
What makes me so very tired is the idea that there’s something foolish or perverse about wanting to see characters in SF/F that reflect the world of my actual experience, and that this somehow destroys the ability to tell stories. I live in a world that contains people of various races, classes, sexualities, genders, body types, etc, and there is something weird and creepy about seeing those people (people like me) erased in a lot of fiction. I *do* like to see characters like me and the people I know in fiction (and there are not currently enough of those characters!). I also like to read about people who are not like me because that is interesting, too.
I am tired of being told that “readers” (not including me, apparently) will not like to see *those* people in stories because those people are only being included because of a message. I am a reader. I want to read about all sorts of people. I spend virtually all of my disposable income on books. I am sure I am not the only one. It drives me nuts that arguments like Correia’s often seem to take as a given that the entire readership of science fiction is a bunch of old white men who are being forced to stomach all this weird stuff. I have been a science fiction reader all my life, and I want more diversity in my fiction, and I hate the implication that I don’t actually count as a reader.
Tomc
January 29, 2014 @ 1:44 pm
I wasn’t limiting my comment to your blog but twisting the meaning of a comment in your replies certainly qualifies. I’m sure Larry can defend his own position better than I.
Brian
January 29, 2014 @ 1:44 pm
I think you and I are using default to mean different things.
Rick
January 29, 2014 @ 1:45 pm
thank you for… Yeah, there’s your “tolerant” approach. When conservatives try it, we be bastards, evil, hateful, etc.. When you use it..it’s “witty”. I would use a rolleyes thingy, but i dislike dumbing down my arguements.
“that comment”… No, I got her point, as stated many times over. What you are doing is taking a section of an argument, moving it over to make a snide comment on another portion. Text book liberal arguementing. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain…”
My “assumption” is nothing of the kind. However, when you combine segmented, compartmentalized prose designed to appeal to a very small amount of readership on the “relatable” scale, with “message prose” it is inevitably going to lose a large segment of readership that might have been gained otherwise. Wow, if that leap of understanding is too tough…
You are welcome, old established author as opposed to the new author looking to get published that Larry was speaking to.
As well, its a nice assumption on your part…”If any of you would like to check out my fiction before proclaiming you’re never gonna read anything by that liberal dumbass Jim Hines, ” It may have been played for a joke, but it still came across as asinine combined with your rant. Snark lives on, wouldn’t you say.
Tom Kratman
January 29, 2014 @ 1:45 pm
Jim:
I am thinking of writing a story that will include a cross dressing intelligent tank, something like a bolo, albeit smaller, who is an absolute asshole, freak, and totally unreliable in combat. Think that would check my inclusiveness block, as far the international community of the ever so caring and sensitive is concerned?
Tom Kratman
January 29, 2014 @ 1:46 pm
Perfectly understandable and _I_ could have made it clearer.
Stareyes
January 29, 2014 @ 1:46 pm
So, if I were to write a story with a genderqueer character* but I’d intended the story to be a fantasy sword and sorcery adventure full of Cool Action Scenes!, not a message about inclusivity or respecting other cultures or ‘rah, rah, non-binary genders!’, would you see it as a message story?
And how do you know I wanted to write a story about characters blowing skeletons up with sorcery instead of a story about how non-binary genders should be recognized as valid choices? Unless I tell you, of course. (And are these mutually exclusive? Because I confess, getting people to think about their assumptions about sex and gender is on my Cool Things to Write About as much as Cool Action Scenes!!! and swashbuckling and undersea adventures and creative uses of magic are.)
* Or a fantasy or SFnal culture based on the Lakota or Thai or those other cultures Jim listed as having room for gender roles other than ‘man’ and ‘woman’. Is choosing to write about Thailand rather than Ireland a Message, and is the reverse also a Message?
Tomc
January 29, 2014 @ 1:47 pm
““MacFarlane is wrong because I’m older than her!”” At no point did Larry make that assertion. As you put it in quotes, you can hardly attribute it to your interpretation.
Rick
January 29, 2014 @ 1:47 pm
Great fiction is capable of exploring many different facets. Making something a personal message tale rarely is. Authors are supposed to be able to speak in many voices, not just the one that appeals to them.
Spriggana
January 29, 2014 @ 1:47 pm
I started to read his first published novel, but somewhere along the way I bounced off hard from a long piece of gun p**n…
MojoRonin
January 29, 2014 @ 1:50 pm
His entire blog post *is* essentially a rail against the ‘near mandate’, but to zero in a bit more, I’ll quote from Correia himself: “…let me paraphrase: “Fantastic! I’m so sick of people actually enjoying books that are fun! Let’s shove more message fiction down their throats! My cause comes before their enjoyment!”
Rick
January 29, 2014 @ 1:51 pm
Only if your work is good enough to maintain new readers. Never having read you, I couldn’t say. I’m a finicky reader, if the first two chapters don’t grab me, then I’d say ‘no’.
Stareyes
January 29, 2014 @ 1:52 pm
Hell, I learned to question my assumptions about my culture being the default and only/best way to do things from Heinlein.
(There’s a scene in The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress where the protagonist plus the Veiled Heinlein Self-Insert are doing diplomacy on Earth, explaining lunar marriage customs. The protagonist notes that all lunar customs ultimately come from Earth, but that something adopted from Micronesia might seem odd to a person from Mississippi. The VHSI noted that marriage and family are shaped by what the family needs: that because the Moon has few social safety nets and an initial colonization that shattered kin networks and had a severe gender ratio imbalance, marriage and family was often structured differently than it was in the USA.)
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:55 pm
Ah. Yes, that was a paraphrase, and was meant to be an obvious satire, not a direct quote. I assumed that was obvious, but I might have been mistaken on that.
Tomc
January 29, 2014 @ 1:55 pm
It would certainly lend more credibility than if you were a twenty something blogger. If not, what is the purpose of you blogging at all? Don’t you feel your biography lends you some authority?
Tom Kratman
January 29, 2014 @ 1:56 pm
Ask someone who thinks everything is a message. 😉
Ken Marable
January 29, 2014 @ 1:57 pm
It is tragic that in the 21st century people still think that acknowledging someone like you even exists is a “Message Story” and a quick way to “murder your career.” I know they just roll their eyes at the term, but there are few clearer cases of privilege at work than in that viewpoint. I have the privilege of this being a non-issue, but I’m sure you have to face the weight of society trying to erase that you even exist all the time.
With so much of the genre NOT including people like you is pushing a false message about the world. But many have the privilege of being completely blind to that even being a message.
Jim C. Hines
January 29, 2014 @ 1:57 pm
You’re testing the “Don’t be a dick” line here, Tom. Knock it off or take it elsewhere.
Tomc
January 29, 2014 @ 1:57 pm
I think Eve is proving Larry’s point. Odd she doesn’t see it.
Ted Hall
January 29, 2014 @ 1:57 pm
Oddly hundreds of us feel that a Hugo ought to go to him…
We only missed getting him nominated by a few votes last year.
Rest assured we’re trying harder this cycle