The Advice Checklist
This rant list has been brought to you by a few comments on this blog post, and by observations about the internet in general. Before jumping in to immediately offer advice on all the things, please consider asking yourself the following questions. Thank you.
And yeah, I get the potential irony of giving advice about asking questions before giving advice. I also think there’s a huge difference between sharing my thoughts in a blog post and jumping into other conversations to tell an individual what you think they should do.
Did this person ask for advice?
Hint: Posting about something on the internet is not the same as asking for advice. Requests for advice usually involve phrases like “What do you think I should do?” or “I need advice.”
Do you think your advice is something this person hasn’t already heard?
Hint: I’ve been diabetic for 16 years. If you’re neither diabetic nor a doctor, I probably know more about my disease than you do. I’ve read the books, heard the advice, followed the online discussions, talked to the doctors, and so on. On a similar note, someone who’s overweight has probably already heard your advice to exercise more. Someone with depression has already heard your advice to “just think positive!”
Do you know enough about this person’s situation to give useful advice?
Hint: Telling someone with financial problems to get rid of their credit cards isn’t going to cut it if they’re currently paying legal fees following a divorce, are underwater in their mortgage, and just got laid off from work.
Are you more concerned with helping or with fixing the person so they’ll stop making you uncomfortable?
Hint: People talk about their problems for a range of reasons. To vent, to process their own feelings, to connect with others and know they’re not alone… If you genuinely want to help, great—but in many cases, giving advice isn’t the way to do that.
Are you more concerned with helping or with looking clever? Are you willing to be told your advice is unwanted?
Hint: If the person in question says they’re not interested in your advice and you respond by getting huffy or defensive or going Full Asshole, then this isn’t about the other person. This is about you and your ego. Take your ego out for ice cream, and stop adding to other people’s problems.
Are you sharing what worked for you or telling the person what they should do?
Hint: There’s a difference between “This is something that helped me,” “This is something you might try,” and “This is what you should do.” For me personally, the first option is easier to hear than the second, and the third usually just pisses me off. But also be prepared to hear that the person doesn’t want your advice, no matter how you phrase it.
Do you know what “giving advice” looks like?
Hint: I wouldn’t have thought this one was necessary. Then I got the commenter responding to one of my posts on depression by telling me, “Listen to your inner self and make it your outer self” and insisting he wasn’t giving me advice. He was just “stating an opinion.” Dude, if you’re telling someone what to do, you’re giving advice. If you’re getting huffy about it just being your opinion, you may also be acting like an asshole.
Have you asked whether the person wants your advice?
Hint: If you’re not sure what someone wants, asking is a pretty safe way to go.
#
I’m not saying you should never offer advice. A few days ago, I left a comment on someone’s Facebook post where she was questioning whether she should bother trying to get her book published. I offered my experience, disagreed with a writing-related myth she referenced, pointed to several options that had worked for myself or other writers, and acknowledged that my advice might or might not be helpful for her particular situation.
But I have zero patience these days for the useless, knee-jerk advice that comes from a place of ego and cluelessnes.
Jess
March 26, 2015 @ 10:14 am
Thank you so much for this post, Jim.
SorchaRei
March 26, 2015 @ 10:15 am
You are my hero of the day.
The End.
Michael W Lucas
March 26, 2015 @ 10:30 am
Great post!
I gotta say, though: Have you tried tracking down people who keep offering unwanted advice and holding a pillow over their face until they stop? I bet it would work!
Kerry aka Trouble
March 26, 2015 @ 10:31 am
Are {hugs} allowed? Empathy, not advice.
{Hugs}
Jim C. Hines
March 26, 2015 @ 10:38 am
Oh, I’m very pro-hug 🙂
Heather Grove
March 26, 2015 @ 10:39 am
“then this isn’t about the other person. This is about you and your ego”
I’m always thrown for a loop when someone gets angry because you say “Thank you, but I’m good.” (Or whatever.) If someone rejects your offer of help and you get angry at them, then helping that person out isn’t what motivated you.
When I had severe insomnia for 6 months, everybody had a cure for me. Melatonin was the big one. Absolutely, guaranteed, it would work for me because it worked for them. As it turned out the entire insomnia problem was due to a medication I was on, and no, melatonin could not freaking fix that. Others told me to get exercise (yeah, the health coach from my insurance company told me that months ago and it wasn’t helping). No one seemed to understand that there was a real difference between “I have trouble falling asleep” vs. “I get so little sleep I can’t speak in full sentences any more or climb a single flight of stairs.”
Like you said, it’s really all about wording. “I’ve heard X; have you heard of it? Do you think it would be worth a try?” “X worked for me; you could give it a shot.” Those are fine. But when they tell you they’ve had *exactly* the problem you’ve had and it’s absolutely solvable with this one thing they did or took… ARGH. I have a friend who tries to diagnose other people’s medical problems by insisting that they must have some condition or other that she already has. I’ve learned to smile and nod, because she does mean well. But it still drives me nuts.
Thank you for posting this. I know I can use the reminder now and then, too.
Matt
March 26, 2015 @ 10:54 am
My favorite is when someone asks me “why don’t you just try and be happier?”
Like I never thought of that.
The only advice I ever give other people with depression issues is “don’t be afraid to take medication. It won’t turn you into a zombie.”
It took about 3 years of experimenting with various med combos (currently on the ultra expensive combo of Brintillex 20mg, Abilify 2mg) but I can finally function like a relatively normal person, so it is worth it… For me.
Annalee
March 26, 2015 @ 11:06 am
Do you think your advice is something this person hasn’t already heard?
This is the one that alway gets me about unsolicited medical advice. I’m the one who has to deal with the pain and inconvenience of my condition. There is no one on the planet more motivated than I am to find treatments that will work for me. It is a safe bet that if it’s in the first 100 pages of google results, I’ve researched it as an option.
If exercise and positive thinking actually cured a condition, the condition would be cured. Literally no one would choose to continue to live with depression, chronic pain, endocrine disorders, limited mobility, or any other disability if they could choose to just willpower their way out of it.
Kerry aka Trouble
March 26, 2015 @ 11:12 am
That’s why I asked – I know not everybody is.
More {hugs} – see you at Windy?
davidbreslin101
March 26, 2015 @ 11:27 am
Useful! Both as vindication for being irritated at the pat little solutions people propose, and, if I’m honest, as practical advice on how to be tactful.
Ruth
March 26, 2015 @ 11:32 am
#2 is huge, and on the side of asking for details too. People so often forget that they are not person #1 to ask about ___ or give ___ piece of advice, they are probably person #298 or even #9857. I hear this a lot from friends with disabilities venting on Twitter.
TrishB
March 26, 2015 @ 11:34 am
Matt, would you mind if I asked some questions about your experiences with Brintillex, etc? Let me know, and we can figure out how to exchange addresses. I’ve been playing with what seems like “all” the meds for over 20 years, but still hold out hope for the one that may really work.
Of course, if you do not feel like discussing, that is cool.
Amanda
March 26, 2015 @ 11:39 am
Oh gosh, this is applicable to so many areas of life. I’ve hidden depression in the past out of a desire to forestall questions and advice. I try to keep that in mind whenever a friend confides in me and my first white knight impulse is to spout a bunch of comparisons. My experience means I can sympathize, not fix.
Right now I’m on the verge of having my first baby, aka a whole new world of unsolicited advice. Friends, family, social media acquaintances, strangers in the street–!
Maria Lima
March 26, 2015 @ 11:45 am
@Annalee – >There is no one on the planet more motivated than I am to find treatments that will work for me.< – OMG, yes. I want to make up signs/flash cards that say this and tell people to STFU.
Muccamukk
March 26, 2015 @ 11:46 am
Great post, Jim. Thanks.
Matt
March 26, 2015 @ 11:51 am
I don’t mind at all. It’s the first drug that has worked for me for a sustained period of time, and like you, I’ve probably tried most of the common and less common drugs (in combination with Abilify). I’m more than happy to answer any questions I can.
Bibliotropic
March 26, 2015 @ 11:55 am
“Listen to your inner self and make it your outer self.” Wow, golly gee, I’ve never considered that before. Good thing I can turn my gender-neutral androgynous much-less-overweight non-autistic inner self into my outer self without anything more complicated than just doing so. BAM! I am now awesome! And thank goodness everyone will now totally understand me and I’ll never face another lack of comprehension ever again. My problems are solved!
…Please consider my sarcasm a complex Tourette’s tic if it makes you feel better. -_- Gah.
Most of that kind of advice is said by people who want to make it seem like their lack of problems stems from believing their way out of having them. Thus anyone who has problems just isn’t trying hard enough. As though sheer willpower can prevent a person from experiencing chronic illness, social prejudice, and a zillion and one other problems; it’s only the weak-willed who actually go through it and don’t just cure themselves by thinking harder.
A. Pendragyn
March 26, 2015 @ 11:58 am
Nice to know I wasn’t the only one ticked off by the pat feel-good posts on depression. Telling me to just be happy or whatever is entirely erasing my experiences as valid. They’re telling me I’m just too stupid to get out or figure it out on my own. But, you know, they just want to help!
Ellen Eades
March 26, 2015 @ 12:01 pm
awesome post. Sucks that it’s so petennially relevant to so many. Thanks.
Bibliotropic
March 26, 2015 @ 12:01 pm
My roommate has terrible insomnia. And has heard every piece of advice under the sun for dealing with it. Every new article with “10 Tips to Help You Beat Insomnia gets sent his way, and every one of them is filled with advice that doesn’t work. Only use your bed for sleeping. Exercise half an hour before going to bed. Always go to bed at the same time every night. If you can’t sleep, get up and do something else. And on and on. And it sounds lke great advice and probably works for a lot of people, but when he says that stuff doesn’t work for him, he gets treated as though he’s just not trying hard enough, like he’s lying and probably likes feeling like crap due to sleep deprivation all the time.
So far we’ve managed to trace it to a sleep pattern that doesn’t match up with what his job demands. He has very little trouble sleeping if he goes to sleep at around 5 AM and gets up around noon. But not currently having a night schedule at work means that doesn’t happen very often. :/
Fortunately we both have similar natural sleep patterns, and he’s looking into switching to overnights in a few months, so with luck we’ll be able to get on good schedules and both forego a lot of our insomnia. (Me, I find that heavy exerise during the day can stave off anxiety-related insomnia, but it’s no guarantee, and I can’t wait to get back to my own vampiric existence so I can sleep better when the sun’s up!)
Beth Wheeler
March 26, 2015 @ 12:22 pm
My OCD, Tourette’s and Asperger’s outer self thanks you for this comment (and that is _not_ sarcasm, just genuine appreciation of yours!)
Amanda Anony Mouse
March 26, 2015 @ 12:27 pm
OMG. The worst was when my mom discovered she could use Facebook as an advice engine. Every single time I posted she offered some piece of advice in the comments. Sometimes multiple times in one thread.
The thing about my mom, is I learned a long time ago that she just feels it is her job to give me advice. It doesn’t really matter what the advice is, as long as she is giving some. I used to take it like criticism…and I would try to earn her praise by taking the advice and showing her i had done so. But that only earned me new advice and sometimes the total opposite of the previous advice.
So finally I learned that was just the way she was and I wasn’t going to ever change that. Plus her advice comes from love and wanting to be helpful. So I just let her do her thing.
I did convince her to stop commenting advice publicly though. We compromised and she sends her advice as Facebook PMs.
LonOtter
March 26, 2015 @ 12:35 pm
Agreed by about fourty-eleven times on your second intro paragraph – a post on your own blog is a very different thing than spouting unsolicited advice at/in response to someone. Here they have the option to read or not, at a time that works for them.
MT
March 26, 2015 @ 12:43 pm
My apologies, Jim. Looking at my response yesterday I know what was in my head and I know what I intended… but really looking at it I see how it wouldn’t look that way to you, especially then/now. I’ve removed it and just wanted to apologize.
What was meant : same place. Same list. Sympathy. And be easy with yourself, do what you need to do.
Came out differently, but.. I stand by the intent. Just need to remember not to shorthand stuff. That process tends to cut out important bits. Like : do what YOU need to do.
Jim C. Hines
March 26, 2015 @ 1:05 pm
No apologies necessary. Honestly, I wasn’t even thinking about your comment when I Hulked out about this stuff last night, or when I wrote this post today. I’m sorry that wasn’t clear.
And yeah. “Take care of yourself” is a big one. Important, and so easily forgotten.
::Hugs::
MT
March 26, 2015 @ 1:55 pm
No, actually I saw some of things. But I did take at as moment to go back and look at what I said and think : ok is this saying what I want or not? I know what I intended and when people write things like this I use it, often, as a moment to re-assess. (shrug) I think what I wrote, if out in the world and read by some one who doesn’t know me or have a feel for what I’m like… would read it as something very different. It’s a good call to say, no, that’s not what I meant. And it’s a good point to go back and deal with that.
Part of it, for me, is that I become complacent with the idea that “I’ve done the work, I know the lessons” and “I know these people, they know me”. The thing is… it’s on-going AND it’s done in some ways with an audience of strangers. So if I, personally, am going to comment I made a commitment to KEEP doing the work and keep being clear. So I’m not in any way thinking that you’ve called me out, specifically. Just, a good time to call myself out.
Because if doing the talks I’m doing in my personal life have taught me anything… it’s that the audience IS listening and it WILL pay attention. And sometimes the most casual things will end up being crucial to some one you didn’t even notice and mean the kinds of differences that are incalculable.
Becca Stareyes
March 26, 2015 @ 2:04 pm
Yeah. Medication can be such a crapshoot since we don’t really understand why some people are helped and why some people get the nasty side effects. I was lucky in that the first thing we tried helped and the side effects* faded after a few months. Assuring people that it doesn’t have to be ‘works perfectly and quickly’ or ‘makes you feel like a zombie’ helps. Also, I think it helps destigmatize drugs as a means to alter your brain so it stops lying like a rug to you.
(I’ve known people on the same drugs who do get worse side effects, including one who gets serotonin syndrome on any SSRI. It’s a fascinating field that we just don’t know enough about.)
* Namely that my body thought it needed 11-12 hours of sleep, so I’d conk out after dinner. OTOH, given my anxiety caused insomnia, my psychiatrist steered me away from medication that might also cause insomnia, which meant I got the ones that were more likely to make me sleepy.
Claudia
March 26, 2015 @ 2:31 pm
“On a similar note, someone who’s overweight has probably already heard your advice to exercise more.”
OH. MY. GOD. THIS. I have heard this so much. SO MUCH.
Dude, I can’t even. I JUST CAN’T.
So tired of the fat-shaming on the internet, disguised as “advice.” It’s like these people assume that anyone who is fat is fat because they sit around eating cheetos and coke all day. I have been fat literally every day of my life, born a big baby and NEVER small. You condescending sh*t, I played tennis from age 5 to age 14, and in my 30s I jog now, and yes I am still “morbidly obese” according to the 1870s BMI chart we still use today. I have ALWAYS been obese.
And yet somehow, my profile picture on Facebook invites “advice” on weight loss, on any forum that uses Facebook as a posting mechanism for comments.
Thanks, Jim, for this post. People need to remember, unless someone explicitly starts by saying, “I need advice,” NO ONE WANTS YOUR ARMCHAIR NON-EXPERT COACHING.
carmen webster buxton
March 26, 2015 @ 2:52 pm
I’ve gotta say– using Clippy to introduce this topic was a stroke of genius!
Stephanie Whelan
March 26, 2015 @ 2:53 pm
I’ve learned when I’m listening to someone in person to always ask what kind of response they want from me. I can simply listen and acknowledge, offer comfort and empathy or offer thoughts, perspectives, help etc as asked for. Online I stick to listening mostly, for lack of cues and personal connection. Many people I know just want to be heard and to put their thoughts out there. I know I often don’t want my emotional spaces and darknesses “fixed” I just want them to be recognized and heard.
Morgan Brilliant
March 26, 2015 @ 3:23 pm
Yeah, meds can be very effective. Remembering that taking blood pressure meds or insulin or whatever other meds for whatever “legitimate” condition is a good thing and not shameful helped me get over the shame I felt for needing my own meds.
Sarah S.
March 26, 2015 @ 5:12 pm
Thank you so much for posting this. Is it all right if I share this with people?
Jim C. Hines
March 26, 2015 @ 5:27 pm
Hopefully, but I don’t know for sure yet.
Kathryn A
March 26, 2015 @ 5:46 pm
“Do you know what “giving advice” looks like?”
This one is particularly important, that people don’t realize. One of my aunts was such a *great* advice-giver that I would dread when she came to visit, because it would take all my strength to keep up a calm facade when she was there, and as soon as she left I would spend the next hour crying. She meant well, she meant so very well. Then apparently my mother told her to stop giving me advice. So what did she do? She sent me “helpful” articles cut out of Readers Digest. I finally confronted her about it, because I was more angry about her disrespecting my late mother’s wishes than for myself. Turns out that she didn’t realize that sending those articles also constituted “advice”.
People can mean well and still do ill, alas.
Sally
March 26, 2015 @ 5:58 pm
Ooh, I hear you on that (she said, blinking and yawning). I have severe insomnia thanks to a medical condition and you know what’s the only thing that works? Sleeping pills. Every night. Lots of ’em. Works, oh, about 85% of the time.
Melatonin actually WOKE ME UP, jittery as if I’d consumed an entire Starbucks. Exercise, relaxation and meditation — none of that crap works. It has never worked, and I’ve been at this since the early 1980’s. If you are younger than my condition, and are not authorized to write prescriptions, try applying Clippy’s #2.
Sally
March 26, 2015 @ 6:07 pm
I may need to tattoo this and print it, like, everywhere.
Sally
March 26, 2015 @ 6:11 pm
There’s 7 billion of us and we’ve been here for thousands of years. I expect it’ll turn out fine. Babies seem to be remarkably hardy critters.
I hope that wasn’t too advice-y! Impending congrats! Supportive noises! 🙂
Sally
March 26, 2015 @ 6:14 pm
I am … none of the things you mentioned as your inner self (well, okay 30 lbs. less would do me good), but I appreciate your comment and sarcasm as well. For reasons.
Megpie71
March 26, 2015 @ 7:44 pm
If exercise and positive thinking actually cured a condition, the condition would be cured.
This, or a variation, needs to be an embroidery sampler. “If exercise and positive thinking could cure my [condition name here], I wouldn’t have it.”
MrsArkban
March 26, 2015 @ 8:32 pm
So when you’re depressed and your inner self wants to commit suicide, you should because then your inner and outer self would match?
Erica Wagner
March 26, 2015 @ 8:51 pm
Thanks for posting this.
Monarda
March 26, 2015 @ 9:41 pm
“No, Sir; to act from pure benevolence is not possible for finite beings. Human benevolence is mingled with vanity, interest, or some other motive.” Samuel Johnson, quoted in James Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson (1791)
Fionna
March 27, 2015 @ 8:36 am
OMG, the insomnia advice! There’s a difference between taking a while to fall asleep and full-on insomnia, and a cup of camomile tea before bed only helps for one of those things – which is exactly why you should think about whether you know enough to give useful advice
Jim C. Hines
March 27, 2015 @ 9:16 am
Sarah – My general preference is that people link back to a piece and/or post an excerpt instead of reposting the whole thing, if that works for you? Thanks!
Jim C. Hines
March 27, 2015 @ 9:17 am
My inner self is all goopy and gross, with organs and fluids and other yuck. I really don’t want to look like that on the outside…
Kassie
March 27, 2015 @ 10:26 am
I want to print this out, laminate it, and make anyone who wants to give me advice about how to “cure” my son’s Autism read it first!
Erica Wagner
March 27, 2015 @ 11:32 am
I suspect most “advice” given to people who are in crisis or dealing with chronic conditions stems from a self-serving place as much (or more) than a desire to help. Sometimes it’s simply from the relatively benign place of wanting to be seen as caring or knowledgeable, but I often get the distinct impression the advice giver wants the person with the issue to stop making them uncomfortable with their difference.
Morgan Brilliant
March 27, 2015 @ 1:08 pm
I’m pretty sure my mother, understandably, doesn’t want to see her granddaughter in the kind of pain she’s in–fibro sucks. But the same piece of advice, over and over, after she’s been told that we don’t want to, why we don’t want to, and that we won’t, is getting extremely old. I really need to figure out how to tell my mother to stop saying it, preferably without hurting her feelings.
Sarah S.
March 27, 2015 @ 2:33 pm
It absolutely does! Thank you.
Sally
March 27, 2015 @ 4:19 pm
And then the cup of chamomile tea goes through your system and ruins the OTHER portion of your sleep when you have to get up really early to go to the bathroom… and then lie awake some more.
Sally
March 27, 2015 @ 4:23 pm
Send her a link to this, and also the comments.
Nenya
March 27, 2015 @ 5:10 pm
Ooh, the 5 am to noon sleep schedule. The one that doesn’t change no matter what you do. This might be serious if it’s kept up for a couple of months, says the Internet, and I go “Oh yeah? Try fifteen years?” The only thing that’s worked for me is sharing a bed with a partner who goes to bed a few hours earlier than me…but even then, half the time it’s 3 am till 11.
So no advice from me but a lot of sympathy! And a sigh of “Thank fuck I’m not working the 7 am shift any more” as well.
Guess
March 28, 2015 @ 1:00 pm
Been on both sides of this. One time I was on Larry Correias forum and he was talking about his high taxes. I have been self employed and there are alot of tax deductions you can take. I had to go through multiple accounts to find one that was any good. So I said something about this. He responded and said that he used to be an accountant…, so no advice needed. I felt like an idiot.
On the flip side… I have flat feet and back pain from sitting in front of a desk. Lots of people want to give me tips on this. I have been to many doctors, chiropractors, physical therapists, and I exercise. I don’t really want to explain this to people over and over again over the years. One of my yoga instructors was doing this… he is a new guy. The others all know me so they don’t bother me. It got down to ‘dude leave me alone’. I do some stuff a little differently since I need some exercises to be different.
Mur
March 30, 2015 @ 3:33 pm
Migraines are tricky things. They have many different triggers and many different manifestations. But I’ve tried to stop posting about migraines online. I know what triggers mine. I know what usually gets rid of them. I know how they will affect me. When I mention them, I’m venting. But the advice deluge is impressive, and so rarely even questions the trigger or how I experience the migraine.
And don’t get me started on “I’m going to answer just so this person will see how clever I am.”
Thanks for the post Jim.
Morgan Brilliant
March 30, 2015 @ 4:33 pm
We found a fantastic doctor, trained as a neurologist, who believes in migraine (a thing that some doctors don’t do) and told us what we need to know to control my daughter’s migraines. He gave us a long list of dietary triggers, saying that different people have different triggers and that many of his patients have found these things to be triggers for them. He doesn’t know why, he can’t point to a common element among them, just that they have a record. It’s refreshing to find someone who basically said, “Here’s what I know, it’ll probably help, but I can’t really tell you why because I don’t know.”
It would be cool if “clever” people would just admit that they don’t know anything and stop proving it by giving useless advice.
Leslie R.
April 1, 2015 @ 5:44 pm
Yeah, that “try and be happier” or “you have to choose to be happy” thing always irritates the heck out of me.
I was very anti-medication for a long time because I’d tried so many that didn’t work and just made me miserable, but I finally got to a place that I had nothing left to try and when I found myself contemplating the location of the nearest tall building after a minor disagreement with a coworker, I decided it was time to try again. Thankfully, this time I found Pristiq and it works like a charm (though I think I may still need some kind of supplement for the winter months). It can be an awfully long road to find the right medication, but so worth it when you do.
Quinalla
April 2, 2015 @ 10:16 am
I agree 100% with this, I love everything about this post, but using Clippy the most annoying technological advise giver ever who is the monarch of giving advise when I don’t want it is brilliant 🙂
Quinalla
April 2, 2015 @ 10:23 am
OMG, I feel you on the migraine advice. I’m lucky that I know my triggers well and I get them very rarely because I am usually able to avoid my triggers, but the advice people give. Anyway, migraines suck, you have my sympathies if you want them!
My favorite personal advice pet peeve are folks who want to give me advice about motion sickness. I’ve had several people imply or straight out tell me it’s all in my head and I could will it away if I tried. Thanks for the BRILLIANT advice 🙂 Don’t you think if that were possible I would have done it by now?
Ekaterina
April 14, 2015 @ 3:09 am
That 5 am to noon sleep schedule that doesn’t change might be delayed sleep phase disorder. It’s often misdiagnosed as insomnia, unfortunately. I have it, and people love saying “You just need to set your alarm one hour earlier, and everything will be alright.” Yeah, like I’ve never used an alarm in my life. Sleep disorders suck 🙁
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May 9, 2015 @ 3:12 am
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