Reddit AMA
Back in mid-2012, I cancelled an AMA (Ask Me Anything) over on Reddit. That was an interesting few weeks. Basically, at the time, Reddit was hosting a discussion inviting rapists to tell their side of the story. My feeling was that as long as that discussion was going on, I wasn’t comfortable participating over there.
This generated a large number of comments, from people calling me an free-speech hater and an idiot who doesn’t understand how Reddit works to others thanking me for drawing attention to some of the nastiness over there. It also generated my first rape threat, though it was a rather pathetic one on the scale of things.
For that reason, I was rather torn when earlier this year, Redditor and generally awesome person Steve Drew invited me to do a Fantasy AMA again. I know there are a lot of great people at Reddit, and a lot of wonderful conversations. Steve has been wonderfully positive to work with, and he clearly loves the genre. But I wasn’t about to go back on the position I had taken two years ago…assuming I was even still welcome.
So Steve and I chatted a bit. It turns out that the rapist discussion had been taken down, though I’m not sure exactly when. And then Steve put me in touch with Reddit’s Director of Communications, Victoria Taylor. She and I exchanged a few emails, and then talked on the phone so she could listen to and respond to some of my concerns.
I was very impressed with both of these individuals. While they might not have agreed with 100% of what I thought (who does?), they were both eager to listen to those concerns, to talk about what they’d been doing over the past few years to try to improve Reddit.
Some of the things Victoria talked about were:
- Reddit has a larger team of people monitoring and moderating the communities. They’ve also added additional reporting options for inappropriate content.
- They’re actively working toward inclusiveness and diversity. One example she pointed to was the growth in women’s topics on Reddit, including many that focus on building support.
- She also pointed me to a study showing the decline of hate speech at Reddit.
This doesn’t mean Reddit is perfect. You had people posting stolen celebrity nudes in a Reddit topic called “The Fappening,” which apparently earned Reddit enough money to pay for their servers for a month. On the other hand, Reddit did try to remove the individual postings, and eventually took down the entire “Fappening” topic when that failed. Was it handled perfectly? Probably not. But I believe it was handled better than it would have been 2-3 years ago.
After thinking it over, I’ve gone ahead and accepted Steve’s invite to do another AMA. I imagine there are still people who are pissed at me for what happened in 2012, and that’s fine. There may be people who think I’m caving or compromising my principles to try to sell books, and that’s fine too.
But the specific board I was objecting to is gone. A lot of people have been working to try to make Reddit a better place. And I think that’s awesome.
So we’ll see what happens, and I’ll post details once everything gets sorted and scheduled.
D. D. Webb
September 25, 2014 @ 5:59 am
Hm…
I know relatively little about Reddit. To be truthful, there’s a certain amount of ludditism on my part at play–I tend not to explore new frontiers unless they have something specific to offer me. But most of what I do know about it turned me off.
I was aware of the Fappening boards over there, as there were links to them from a humor site I browse. That rapist discussion thing I did not know about, but it surprises me not in the least. In general, the place has always struck me, on my relatively few exploratory visits, as the kind of unmoderated Internet Wild West like 4chan where people gather together to show off their complete lack of basic human empathy.
Sounds like I may have judged a bit too harshly, which is another thing I am prone to doing. I’ll check out your board when it’s up, Mr. Hines, and maybe explore the site a bit more.
Jim C. Hines
September 25, 2014 @ 8:06 am
It’s definitely not perfect, and it’s a large enough community that you’re going to have a range of people, from the awesome to the scummy and empathy-impaired. But overall, I think the powers-that-be are working to make it better, and I think there’s been progress on that front.
bluestgirl
September 25, 2014 @ 10:20 am
I appreciate the thought that went into your decision, but I wish I shared your optimism.
When you say that Reddit is taking steps to have more moderators, what are they moderating for? According to the Reddit blog post here, it sounds like they only moderate for legal considerations (actions likely to cause imminent harm, violations of copyright, etc.). And I think that, as long as Reddit operates on a “as long as it’s legal,” standard, then it’s going to be a place that nurtures toxic behavior.
G Man
September 25, 2014 @ 2:09 pm
Honestly, it does seem to depend on the moderator and the subreddit they are moderating. As most subs have posting rules, that if not followed, will result in your posts being deleted or being banned from the sub. There has been a lot of both recently, due to multiple highly politically charged issues, such as the Fappening and #Gamergate.
So, while there may be some of what you consider “toxic”, there is also a lot of places that do try to police themselves (even if some of moderators can get overzealous and turn certain subs into echo chambers, but that is sort of their right as mods).
Nicholas K
September 25, 2014 @ 2:57 pm
I have no investment in whether you do the AMA or not (and I’m active in a couple of subreddits myself), but since you bring it up, all the word from the powers-that-be has been that they aren’t working to make it better. At least not in the sense that we’re interested in.
In this blog post discussing the shutdown of the Fappening subreddit, they take great pains to make it clear that they don’t want to moderate or take down anything that they don’t absolutely have to.
But what’s worse is this followup announcement, where they go out of their way to reassure everyone that while they did shut down /r/TheFappening, they absolutely did not do so because it was an ongoing sexual assault against a number of women, but rather because they were compelled to by law and circumstance.
To be clear: They apologized for giving the impression that they are interested in shutting down sexually abusive activity on Reddit.
Anyway, like I said, I have no problem with anyone choosing to do an AMA or otherwise use Reddit for stuff. But I can’t agree that there’s been any progress at the administrative level whatsoever, and it’s possible that it’s gotten worse.
bluestgirl
September 25, 2014 @ 3:40 pm
I’m not doubting the existence of, for lack of a better word, positive spaces on Reddit. My concern is more about the range-just how low is the low bar? It seems like the answer is “higher than 4chan but not by much.”
The changes that Reddit was talking about- adding moderators, trying to encourage women-friendly subs- seem to address only the subs that are interested in change, but I don’t think it would affect any group that doesn’t want to change, and those are the groups I have a problem with. What I want is an improvement on the low-end, but having more moderators doesn’t seem like it will change that, since there’s nothing stopping the moderators from following the “as long as it’s legal it’s fine by me” standard.
Especially since, when something comes up and there are problems with those low-bar groups, Reddit’s official line is, “Our general stance on this stuff is that reddit is a platform, and there are times when platforms get used for very deplorable things. We take down things we’re legally required to take down, and do our best to keep the site getting from spammed or manipulated, and beyond that we try to keep our hands off.”
Of course, my comfort level is in no way a measure of what other people can or should feel. But I don’t see as much cause for optimism as Mr. Hines sees.
D. D. Webb
September 25, 2014 @ 6:26 pm
To play devil’s advocate (and yes, I know that phrase is usually followed by something awful, but please bear with me), I can understand on an intellectual level where these mods must be coming from. The general ethos of the Internet is one of freedom and anonymity. Sites like Reddit prosper by exploiting that. They’d be fairly foolish to bite all those hands feeding them.
However, there is a larger issue of whether it is just or acceptable to profit from that. I like freedom and anonymity as much as the next person, but if I do say so myself, I don’t use them to mistreat people. An AWFUL lot of folks do, it seems. I’m slowly coming around to the belief that the Internet doesn’t do us a favor by stripping away the social pressures that seem to be all that’s making some people behave.
I appreciate you sharing this information, as it’ll help me to make a decision about possibly using this site in the future. As a self-published author starting out, exposure is VERY hard to come by and Reddit is one of the tools it’s been suggested to me that I use. Building an audience isn’t worth compromising principles, however, and I’m still trying to decide whether this place is a good one to involve myself with.
KatG
September 26, 2014 @ 9:20 pm
Reddit hasn’t changed at all, as far as I can see. They still allow child porn, stalker photos of women, death threats, rape threats, illegal photos as with the actresses, and so forth. And they’ll continue to do so as long as it’s profitable and they don’t get hit by lawsuits. There has been no philosophical change to the site.
But, a lot of authors use them to promote books because they are a large site. And I don’t see anything wrong with that. The people who run most websites — Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc., are not particularly wonderful human beings and let a lot of hateful crap on their sites. (See the Facebook page Jewish Ritual Murder, which Facebook refuses to take down.) So if they can promise not to let bigoted trolls stroll through your AMA, I don’t think you’re violating major principles while promoting on the Internet.
I don’t know what Reddit will exactly do in future, as their name has now become synonymous with misogynist violence and dodgy porn operations, despite other areas of their site. But to really change that would require probably Hollywood giving a care, not book authors.
D. Moonfire
September 27, 2014 @ 11:33 am
There are good parts of Reddit just as there are bad, much like there is the same thing with every other social interaction out there. I understood perfectly when you didn’t do the AMA last time but I’m also glad that you are considering it this time.
I’m also glad that you got to talk to people high up in the Reddit food chain. Your conversation is going to stick with them for a long time, even if they take longer to change the site. And that influence will be shown, just a little step in your direction.
Elizabeth Mancz
October 1, 2014 @ 10:39 pm
I suggest that you read today’s We hunted the mammoth, then ask your friends at Reddit about the social value of “corrective rape”. The person responsible for the new sub-reddit claims to have committed 7 such rapes and incited another man to also commit rape.
Geoff Richards
October 2, 2014 @ 7:27 am
JH, I don’t have a problem with you promoting yourself on the AMA thing, it can only dilute the nastiness a little, if the mods keep your thread clean. But it does look like the powers that be at Reddit are not as interested in cleaning up their act as they want us to believe.
As Elizabeth Mancz pointed out David Futrelle has summarized some of the awfulness that’s still there: http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/01/reddit-hits-a-new-low-with-a-subreddit-promoting-the-corrective-rape-of-sluts-and-harlots/
Looks like it’s still the sewer of the internet. BTW I found that via PZ Myers who also has words for the Reddit admins: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/10/02/reddit-its-like-a-delicious-bowl-of-ice-cream-with-only-a-few-flecks-of-shit-poison-in-it/
Maybe your AMA can shine a light on some of this?
Jim C. Hines
October 2, 2014 @ 8:14 am
Thanks. Just sent the wehuntedthemammoth link to the folks I’ve been talking to at Reddit, asking for their thoughts and whether Reddit had any sort of statement/response.
Jim C. Hines
October 2, 2014 @ 8:42 am
It sounds like Reddit has already deleted both the account and the subreddit.
Marc
October 3, 2014 @ 1:52 pm
I just checked Jim and no they have not deleted that sub – https://www.reddit.com/r/PhilosophyOfRape/ – nor any of the other subs that were mentioned in that article.
I was a long time redditor, 7 years, this latest round of horribleness was all I could take and I have deleted my account.
Until the owners of Reddit are willing to accept responsibility for how Reddit is being used I would hesitate doing anything that would help that site grow or draw more hits.
Marc
October 3, 2014 @ 1:55 pm
The redditor in question hasn’t been banned either, as he just posted again 2 hours ago
Jim C. Hines
October 3, 2014 @ 3:40 pm
Shit. I wasn’t able to check that myself from work, so I took the response I got at face value. Will follow up, thank you.
Jim C. Hines
October 3, 2014 @ 3:51 pm
Okay, emailed a Reddit director, and was told they’re looking into this, and will hopefully have more info for me soon.
I don’t expect instant response from large organizations, but I hope something happens soon. Will update as I hear more.
Marc
October 9, 2014 @ 1:24 pm
Hi Jim,
It’s been a week and I was wondering if you had heard anything back.
To be honest I’m assuming that Reddit is hoping people will have a short attention span so they don’t actually have to do anything. Last I checked all of those subs are still in existence.
I guess they’re going to claim freeze peach or just that they’re not responsible for how people use their product.
Hope all is well with you.
marc
Jim C. Hines
October 18, 2014 @ 11:57 am
Not yet, no. Not thrilled about that…
marc
October 20, 2014 @ 6:50 pm
Thanks for the reply Jim.
To be honest I was never hopeful that Reddit would do anything anyway, they’ve only ever responded when there was a risk of legal repercussions so I’m not expecting that to change.